Hi pmclaine-

Merry Christmas!!! 

The correct blocks for one of those rebuilds (height anyway) are the same as those in the photos below:

This is a 1955 “Van Orden Sniper” (S/N 351439) so roughly contemporary with the USMC rebuilds of ’42 standard rifles that found their way into combat in Viet Nam.  The Van Orden rifles were basically G7044C (30-06 M70 Target models) that were special ordered from the factory with uncheckered standard style stocks (with special butt stock dimensions that matched the Springfield 03 National Match rifle).  Van Orden’s shop “Evaluators Limited” was located near Quantico VA and sold a couple hundred of these during the ’50s.  They were sold either to civilians (as was the case with S/N 351439) or to armed forces marksmanship units.  Some few of the military Van Ordens found their way to Viet Nam, but probably not many.

The blocks on the Van Orden are Lyman type.  The front block (appropriate for the M70 target rifle) is 0.360″ tall.  The rear block is 0.185″ tall (same as the Unertl ‘U’ block) and same style as the barrel mounted block.  Below is a regular M70 target rifle from ’42 with the same blocks:

I’m sure you know that the USMC rebuilds used either M70 target barrels ordered as parts from Winchester or Douglas barrels of the same dimensions.  So those height blocks should work for you.  I do not know whether the USMC rifles used Lyman or Unertl (flat top) blocks.  Others here may have a better idea.  The Unertl blocks might be easier to find and would probably be correct.

Hope this helps,

Lou

Merry Christmas!!!

That eBay lot is a correct style/height block for the receiver ring.

The barrel contour/scope block height matter is an interesting question.  I took some measurements off a 1948 Winchester 30-06 target rifle with it’s 24″ medium heavy straight taper barrel.  The diameter of the barrel at the rear 6-48 hole for the barrel block is about 1.120″.  The muzzle diameter is about 0.790″.  These are the barrels with a factory-installed 0.360″ tall block.  Note that is overall height of block, not height above barrel. 

You are right that target barrels obtained from Winchester would have two 6-48 D&T holes at the muzzle that could mount a Lyman ‘A’ sight block (whether the block was there or not, the holes were).  They’d also have the standard Winchester barrel address/caliber designation stamps.   I only (think I) know what I (think) recall having read (Chandler and/or Senich) about the Douglas barrel contour.  If the Douglas barrels were heavier (which could very well be) it would help to get the diameter at the scope block holes and go from there.  How long is your barrel?  24″ or 26″?

A 24″ straight taper barrel measuring 0.875″ at the muzzle would be a heavy beast.  The M70 bull gun (which is surely a heavy beast) had a 28″ barrel that was 0.845″ at the muzzle (0.875″ at the 26″ point).  Those barrels used a 0.262″ tall block (according to the Winchester parts catalogs).  A 24″ barrel that was 0.875″ at the muzzle would probably need something in-between a 0.360″ tall block and a 0.262″ block.  Also depends on whether you are are intending at shoot at 1000 yards.

One thing I’ll add here to confuse others as much as I am confused…  The 0.262″ tall blocks used on bull guns would have left very little metal for the screw if they were produced in the Lyman style.  If you look at the 1939 Winchester parts catalog you can find where the 0.262″ block for the M54 bull gun is specified as “flat top”.  The same part in the M70 section of the catalog also specifies the height but does not say that it is flat on top.  My earliest M70 bull gun (S/N 22353) shown below, has a flat top 0.262″ tall barrel block (like the M54 specification) that I think is original (they’re slightly different from the Unertl B70 block).  OTOH, Steve Emmert has factor blueprints of the M70 bull barrel from the ’40s that specify the 0.360″ block on the bull gun.  So there you have it… Even the factory was confused!!!

Lou

I don’t know what happened to my original post, but here is a genuine Van Orden Sniper rifle sold to the US Army at the 1954 National Matches. Yes, I do have the receipt. It had US markings on the receiver, but some paranoid idiot ground them off. The rifle is as bought at Camp Perry. My late friend and author, Peter Senich, shows it in his sniper book with a Sporter stock and he said it was probably used in Viet Nam. When a friend gave me the rifle, I put it back in a original target stock the way it came from Camp Perry. # 272958, has a 1953 dated medium heavy bbl. Lyman 48WH rear sight, and a Lyman 77 front.   Merry Christmas to all.     Big Larry

Merry Christmas-

Those blocks on eBay are the right ones for the M70 medium heavy target barrel.  The heights stated in my earlier posts, as well as in Rule’s book and the Winchester component parts catalogs, refer to overall height, i.e. how high the top of the block would sit above the surface of a flat table, NOT how high the top of the block sits above a round barrel.  The seller does not show those measurements in his photos.

For reference, the M70 bull gun barrel was 1.250″ where it exited the receiver, about 1.178″ in diameter at the point of the rearmost barrel block hole (5.02″ forward of the receiver), and 0.845″ at the muzzle 27.27″ from the receiver (O.A.L. including threads was 28″).  This means that the M70 bull gun barrel was only about 0.060″ larger in diameter at the rear screw hole than the medium heavy target barrel (meaning about 0.030″ difference in radius).  

I can only guess that the reason the factory (initially at least) put a 0.262″ tall front block on the bull gun (fully 0.098″ lower than the 0.360″ block on the target rifle) was NOT simply to compensate for the thicker barrel.  That would have only required a height difference of 30 thousandths.  So it must have been b/c the bull gun was considered a 1000 yard target rifle and the genuinely lower front block would give some extra elevation adjustment for extreme range.  

So even with the M70 bull gun contour, a 0.360″ tall block would work fine at the ranges you would be doing most of your shooting.  If the Douglas barrel contour you are using is even heavier than that, you might want to use something not as tall.  

If the Douglas barrel is 1.178 inches (or larger) in diameter at the point of the rearmost block hole, you might just go with a Unertl B70 block on the barrel and ‘U’ block on the receiver.  That should give you a 1000 yard rifle.  OTOH I also like the plan of buying two of those 0.360″ blocks and having 0.030″ to 0.060″ milled off the bottom of one of them.  

Good luck,

Lou