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Since I originated the question as to when case coloured hammers and receivers were replaced with blued hammers and receivers, and since I think the Winchester 1886 rifle is the greatest model produced by Winchester, please send me information on any Winchester 1886’s out there that you may have — serial number, configuration, special order features, date of production (if you know it), calibre, anything else? Also, if it contains a case coloured receiver, and, if not, (e.g., blued), if the lever and hammers are blued or case coloured. Here is an example of two Winchester 1886’s, one with a case coloured hammer & lever, and one with blued:
http://merzantiques.com/photo/the-finest-pair-of-blued-frame-50-110-express-in-the-country
mrcvs,
You will want/need to go to the Rock Island, Amoskeag, Julia’s and other auction house websites and start digging through all the old auction catalogs that are on line. It would not surprise me if by doing so you can jump start the survey with at least a couple hundred rifles. Also start looking at Days Winchesters which always has drool quality 1886’s listed and has wonderful photos of them. http://www.dayswinchesters.com/index.htm
Good luck and have "fun"
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
mrcvs,
Here are some "86 Winchesters that I previously owned. This is all the data I have on them in my records.
1886 Win. Rifle, ser. # 49,199, cal. .45-90, 26" OBFM, CB
1886 Win. Rifle, ser. # 29,787, cal. .40-65, 26" OBFM, CB
1886 Win. SRC, ser. # 110,973, cal. .38-56
1886 Win. Rifle, ser. # 109,961, cal. .45-70, 26" Half round-Half octagon bbl., Half mag., CB, Lyman tang peep
1886 Win. Rifle, ser. # 125,724, cal. .50-100-450 Ex., 26" OBFM, Smooth steel SB, Express sights, sling eyes.
1886 Win. Rifle, ser. # 133,489, cal. .33 WCF, 24" RBHM, Hard rubber SB
1886 Win. Rifle, ser. # 88,890, cal. .40-82, 26"OBFM, CB, TD, Sling swivels
1886 Win. SRC, ser. # 100,241, cal. .45-70, case-colored receiver
mrcvs
It’s already been done on the 1886 by John Madl. Here’ a link to the on line data http://www.lssu.edu/faculty/jmadl/
The data on his site is about 5 years old, generally when folks want to know about a unique or pricey 86 they give John a call.
V/R
Mike
Oh, GREAT! And, I was already making a list of other ’86s I know about. Well, just delete my last text. 🙁
I have created a brief data table of 1886 rifles, which details known serial numbers and whether or not they contain blued or case coloured hammers and levers. It is in Excel format, and, if anyone can tell me how to attach it to this forum, I will. That would be GREAT!
In any event, serial number 151,483, which dates from 1913, definitely has a case-coloured hammer and lever.
I was able to observe over 100 Winchesters from various serial number ranges, and the case colouring appears strong and evident over the years, except, curiously, during the transition from case-coloured hammers and levers to blued hammers and levers.
Numbers 151,935, 152,228, 152,307, and 156,985 definitely contain case-coloured levers. The first of these was received in the warehouse on 24 February 1917; the latter three I do not have dates on. The hammers of these are dull over the years, but, curiously, appear to have been blued, from what I can tell! I could be wrong in my observations, but, in any event, the case-colouring or bluing in this serial number range on hammers is incredibly weak. It seems more than a coincidence???
Curiously, 152,314, which is in the same range as the above, most definitely contains a case-coloured hammer and lever, with a blued receiver. It was received in the warehouse on 02 November 1916.
The next in the serial number range above, I have identified and observed pictures of, is 157,559. It definitely contains a blued receiver, hammer, AND lever. I do not have a date for this one. Perhaps Bert can provide an exact date.
It appears to me that, unless there was some overlap, that at least until 151,483, there were blued receivers and case-coloured levers and hammers, and, from my observations, if the hammers discussed above really were case coloured and this appears extremely weak today, such a configuration may have continued regularly beyond the 152,3XX range. Indeed, 152,314 does definitely contain a case-coloured hammer and lever. Was it just at the latter end of a continuous production of these, or was there overlap of these, and possibly some with blued hammers and case-coloured levers. Again, unless there was some overlap, by 157,559, all receivers, levers, and hammers were blued. I could not identify any overlap in this serial number range.
I think if other members could supply information about Winchester 1886’s in the 151,000 to 157,000 range, perhaps we can determine exactly (or as nearly as is possible), when Winchester discontinued case-coloured hammers and levers in favour of blued examples of these, if there was overlap, and if some left the factory with case-coloured levers and blued hammers, as my observations seem to indicate. or, perhaps the reverse is true (case-coloured hammers and blued levers) on some occations.
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I have an 86 154485 A . 33 WCF, RB, FM, Crescent Rifle Butt (letters) date in 5-23 1919, shipped (to Canada)5-23-1919 Blued receiver (badly flaking) blued hammer (strong) and blued lever (weak)
I am posting this for mrcvs
http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/oldguy67/media/1894%20others/1_zpsbfa8d9b5.jpg.html
[Image Can Not Be Found]
159367 blue frame, lever & hammer 33 WCF
159987 same as above
could not fit these last 2 entries in the spread sheet.
PLEASE NOTE: My survey was not, prior to serial number 140,000, intended to be all-inclusive. I just placed a few representative examples of lower serial numbers in it. After 140,000, I entered data on all Winchester 1886’s that I could find, as the interest really lies with firearms after 150,000 in number, as this is where the transition occurred — ca. 1913 to 1921.
I have a 40-82 ser 98### 1895 year of manufacture. 26" Hex.
Please keep in mind I am a rookie collector and would love some feedback here but I believe these rifles up to 1901 had case colored receivers. Having said that it would appear this rifle has bluing on the receiver, hammer and lever some of which is coming off. Now it may be my hopeful imagination but there does seem to be a little case colored remnants under there. Was this rifle perhaps re blued many many years ago. The bluing on the barrel is a pretty nice consistent brownish patina which I would think is almost certainly original.
I hope this helps your survey and as I said any input would be very welcome. Maybe I should have a professional remove the bluing from the receiver and see whats there case color wise. I would be delighted to send some photos if you want to give me an email address to send to. I still cant figure out how to upload them on the site here.
steelslide said
I have a 40-82 ser 98### 1895 year of manufacture. 26" Hex.
Please keep in mind I am a rookie collector and would love some feedback here but I believe these rifles up to 1901 had case colored receivers. Having said that it would appear this rifle has bluing on the receiver, hammer and lever some of which is coming off. Now it may be my hopeful imagination but there does seem to be a little case colored remnants under there. Was this rifle perhaps re blued many many years ago. The bluing on the barrel is a pretty nice consistent brownish patina which I would think is almost certainly original.
I hope this helps your survey and as I said any input would be very welcome. Maybe I should have a professional remove the bluing from the receiver and see whats there case color wise. I would be delighted to send some photos if you want to give me an email address to send to. I still cant figure out how to upload them on the site here.
If you have an 1886 from 1895 that contains a blued receiver, lever, and hammer, barring a special order gun, of which this is unlikely, it is probable that your gun was reblued, as you have surmised. Also, if you count the flat surfaces on your barrel, it should be 8-sided, or octagonal (not hexagonal).
I hope this helps!
Sorry…. yes of course its oct. I dont know where that came from. Thanks for that reply mrcvs.
What should I do with this? Should I have that bluing removed do you think. I love the rifle its in pretty good shape. Its missing the rear elevator and the top tang screw which I incidentally just ordered yesterday, but other than that it is all original (except for perhaps this bluing).
Here are three more I have since discovered:
138369 Blued receiver, case coloured lever, hammer probably case-coloured (?) .33 WCF Rifle
152764A Blued receiver, case coloured lever, hammer possibly blued (?) .45-90 SRC
154204 Blued frame, lever, and hammer .33 WCF Rifle
Shouldnt all 86 serial #s after a certain # , have the A after the serial #? I remember it from the Madl info that the A means a threaded mag tube instead of pinned
25-20 said
Shouldnt all 86 serial #s after a certain # , have the A after the serial #? I remember it from the Madl info that the A means a threaded mag tube instead of pinned
It could be! I obtained my information from others who provided it or going to auction sites. If I could read the serial number off the gun, I would use that. If it was provided in the description, then I could use that one. I recall that at least on one occasion, a serial number was given without the letter ‘A’ in the description, but the photo showed it with the letter ‘A’ WHERE post_id = so I used the complete serial number. (For the record, it was serial number 152764A that was the one I observed as being different than the written information provided).
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