T. Smith said

I would think just as highly of a total “100% correct” restoration as I would an original firearm in 80-85% condition. Doug Turnbull has no problem finding clients that agree with me.  

Quite true, & it’s a curious niche they occupy: folks who profess to like “old guns,” antiques, that is, but only after all signs of their history have been erased, & they’ve been made to look brand new! (Or even, as you say, better than new!)  It’s a mind-set I sure don’t understand, but if such restorations help to preserve the metal-working skills needed to create them, I guess it’s a good thing.  (Though I dread the thought of nice, clean, un-screwed with, 70 or 80% guns being subjected to such restorations!  That’s a crime, I think.)

Maybe the radical difference in the standards applied to antique car collecting vs. gun collecting derives from the fact that old cars are often subject to even more abuse & neglect than old guns, & that whereas many gun collectors seldom if ever shoot their best guns, antique cars collectors want their vehicles restored to good drivable condition.

Not that I own any, but old tractors are part of my growing up years and I like old tractors.  Case, Allis-Chalmers, Massey Ferguson, Farmall, Ford, John Deere… yes, love those old tractors.  I sometimes watch the various television shows and auctions that feature them.  In most cases, they have been completely restored and very brightly painted – I suppose to look like how they looked when they drove off the assembly line.  I’ve seen a lot of these tractors years ago – but never new.  Anyway, I can’t say I care for the restored ones made to look new.  They look no different than brightly painted toy tractors on the toy store shelves.  They look very gaudy to me.  Show me one with some faded paint, a bit of patina and you’ve got my attention. 

Chuck said
As you can tell from my avitar I have a 64 Fairlane.  It is numbers matching and date code correct.  Just like my Winchesters if you need a part you find an original part that is period correct.  The Ford is harder since each part has a part number and a date code. 

 

There is a market for restored guns.  Everyone has different tastes.  I know what it costs to have a deluxe gun restored and it can be over $5,000 easily.  I just prefer to collect original stuff.  Collecting what you like is the number one rule of collecting.  

I like original as well – firearms, cars, tractors, etc.  I think sometimes where people can find a collision is where they collect what they find themselves attracted to, and then are dismayed when it come to disburse, and they discover others aren’t as attracted as they are.  It often comes down to whether you are purchasing something for yourself or a future owner.  Let me give you an example:  Winchester M1895’s.  I’ve always thought they were very cool.  It took me a while to learn that the love for Winchesters does not extend to the 95’s as much as it does other models.  I’ve gone down the same road with .33’s. 

Another point I will make is that we are often influenced by what other collector’s like – often just through being sponges.  If you see enough collectors move along quickly when they discover that ’86 on the table is a .33 (or a .40-65), it can make a person take notice.  I have a friend who has a beautiful deluxe ’86 in .38/56 – very high condition and pristinely original.  Beautiful case colors.  Every time he shows it, he immediately apologizes for the chambering.  His shame is apparent.  Doesn’t inspire the pursuit of an ’86 in that chambering.  I think we all witness hundreds of mini-examples of these type experiences/observations over the years and our brain incorporates it into what we become interested in.

I have another friend (now deceased) who told me one of his greatest joys in collecting was going to gun shows and showing off his latest acquisition.  He really enjoyed having many other collectors drool and oh and ah over what he had.  The more he could get their eyes to pop out and experience their envy, the happier he was.  Those who observed this probably never saw him pull this off with a .33 or a .40-65  😉 

mrcvs said

The future ain’t pretty.  Future generations have much less interest in firearms and collecting anything, for that matter.  They value “experiences” instead and, due to a heavy student loan burden, have limited funds, anyways.
 

Don’t think “limited funds” is the main issue (& anyway, there are plenty of rich spoiled brats), it’s simply lack of interest in the history & achievements of this country as a result of years spent in an educational system that deliberately devalues the achievements of America, & Western civilization in general, in order to elevate the status of the Turd World;  all those people, you know, who previously strived to be free of European colonial domination, but now, after running their own countries into destitution, are invading the same Western nations that had formerly colonized them.  Most college students have probably been taught more about ML King & the civil rights movement than Washington & Jefferson (those brutal slave owners!), & the rest of early American history.

This attitude is reflected in ways other than gun collecting, such as a corresponding decrease of general interest in other antiques.  Antiques Roadshow is now re-running programs from 10 or more yrs ago in which values then are contrasted with values today, & in most cases today’s are appreciably lower; certain items like early American furniture have fallen to less than half of their previous value.  What’s gone up?  Mainly stuff like Oriental art, Indian artifacts, African junk; anything, in other words, out of the American historical mainstream.

Totally agree Clarence & mrcvs.  When I was in college and grad school back in the late 80-90’s, my degrees were in Anthropology & Archaeology.  I had to endure the mindsets of folks who thought Marx and Engles were the greatest gift to humanity.  And it wasnt just in the Liberal Arts community, it was rampant in many other of the universities departments–along with the many other wrong-headed ideas.  This was also about the time of the introduction of “multiculturalism” to the curriculum requirements–a great coup for them to generate more required hours and tax free tuition revenue.  Apparent nothing has changed since then other than the fuzzy-thinking and activism has become the norm and we see it played out day in and day out in the media.  Culturally, we’ve come to rely on deception of context, “wokeness”, being “triggered” or offended, and 20 minute soundbites to form opinions over research and rational or independent thinking.

It is a shame that the younger generation doesnt take notice to the quality or workmanship that went into products in generations past, even for use today.  They have been programmed to think that everything they need can be of lesser quality and when your done with it they can be thrown away and something new bought. The same goes with other antiques and firearms.  Think the flip side of this problem is that we have more things we have to spend money on to sustain the status quo, not to mention the price of everything whether it be vehicles, housing, health insurance, or food, etc. 

Agree with you mvcrs regarding the higher condition firearms, they will (hopefully) continue to rise in value provided the collector base maintains or expands and and there is still interest.  I think the value of brown or lesser condition guns will continue to gradually rise and fluctuate.  There are lots of folks out there who have an interest but not necessarily the funds to purchase the higher end guns leaving a larger buyer base for the lesser ones.  Think about it when you go to the next gun show, what percentage of those folks in that room have the interest and funds to spend $5-10K+ on a high condition gun vs. those willing to lay down 1-2K for a quality but lesser condition gun.  The interest is there either way whether you have the means or not, its just the economy of condition that is different.   Either way, youve got to have and cater to both types of buyer to perpetuate the interest in the hobby. 

Roger that Clarence, Im in the same boat, thats why I have such great insight – ha .   My old Ford truck is an oldie too, a little shy of half a million miles. 

Bert H. said

Big Red is getting a bit long in the tooth as well… I took delivery of it on December 28th, 2004, and the odometer is now currently reading 320,300 miles.  Damn good thing it has a Cummins power plant, which is good for at least 1,000,000 miles!

Bert  

Bert-

Congrats on finally getting that Cummins engine broken in. Should run just fine from now on. 😉

Mike