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Bert,
How rare is it for a model 1894 to have no rear sight dovetail slot, and letter as such? I saw this mentioned in Robert Renneberg’s book, Winchester model 94, 2nd edition, page 56, and find it interesting that someone could have actually ordered a model 94 without the rear sight dovetail. Have you researched this option?
thanks,
Al
I’m sure Bert will chip in soon, but here is one for sale now:
http://merzantiques.com/photo/factory-engraved-winchester-model-94-rifle
They are very scarce, but out there. I can think of one a few I have seen the last couple years that came up at JDJ:
http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/view_lot_info.asp?lot=1080-327
http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=44363&sale=320&lot=2025
http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=44325&sale=320&lot=2087
I have not had one in my 1894 collection, but have had one in an 1886 that lettered that was too.
What you immediately notice in all the above guns is that they all come with Lyman 21 or 38 Receiver sights. My 86 with "rear sight delete" option also has a Lyman 21.
Matt
Thanks Matt, those are beautiful rifles. I see what you mean by them being ordered with receiver sights. How much money do you think the ones at JDJ went for?
tionesta1 said
Thanks Matt, those are beautiful rifles. I see what you mean by them being ordered with receiver sights. How much money do you think the ones at JDJ went for?
1. http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/view_lot_info.asp?lot=1080-327
($18,000 plus the 15% buyer’s premium).
2. http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=44363&sale=320&lot=2025
($12,500 plus 15% premium)
3. http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=44325&sale=320&lot=2087
($23,000 plus the 15% premium)
And, I found another:
http://www.jamesdjulia.com/auctions/view_lot_info.asp?lot=1084-327
This one appears not to have sold. Maybe had a reserve not met, not sure.
None cheap, but all are high condition guns with rare features. I actually bid on # 1, but didn’t make the cut:)
Matt
Matt,
It’s a shame you didn’t get that one. Seems like the guns ordered with "rear sight slot delete" also were ordered along with high end features. If the original owners only knew what prices these things are bringing.
Al
I have an "H" checked deluxe PG, SB, half octagon bbl, takedown in 38-55 that was ordered without a rear sight dovetail. It came with a Lyman tang sight and Lyman front sight. All features I think are listed in the letter. It origionally belonged to my dad. Will try to post some pics if I can.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1892Takedown said
I have an "H" checked deluxe PG, SB, half octagon bbl, takedown in 38-55 that was ordered without a rear sight dovetail. It came with a Lyman tang sight and Lyman front sight. All features I think are listed in the letter. It originally belonged to my dad. Will try to post some pics if I can.
That sounds like an absolute dandy rifle Chris, I would love to see some photos.
Cheers,
Matt
tionesta1 said
Matt,It’s a shame you didn’t get that one. Seems like the guns ordered with "rear sight slot delete" also were ordered along with high end features. If the original owners only knew what prices these things are bringing.
Al
Yes, I was really hoping for that one. Never know. Going to try for something nice at the next JDJ this Fall. Already got the gun picked out:)
I should point out, showing these 4 rifles I noted above with the "sight delete option" almost gives the impression they are not that rare…look, here’s 4! But, one should bear in mind that all 4 of these JDJ guns came from one man’s collection, Wes Adams. He had the most incredible Winchester collection in recent time I would say. They are indeed rare, just that this man had the means to find and buy them.
Matt
tionesta1 said
Matt,It’s a shame you didn’t get that one. Seems like the guns ordered with "rear sight slot delete" also were ordered along with high end features. If the original owners only knew what prices these things are bringing.
Al
Yes, I was really hoping for that one. Never know. Going to try for something nice at the next JDJ this Fall. Already got the gun picked out:)
I should point out, showing these 4 rifles I noted above with the "sight delete option" almost gives the impression they are not that rare…look, here’s 4! But, one should bear in mind that all 4 of these JDJ guns came from one man’s collection, Wes Adams. He had the most incredible Winchester collection in recent time I would say. They are indeed rare, just that this man had the means to find and buy them.
Matt
I remember most of those guns. Beautiful and rare, rare, rare.
Some of the other guns w/o the slot were the 67, 68, and 69 .22 scoped models. And, I have one ultra rare custom order Winchester Sniper Rifle Type No. 2 on the 1903 Springfield action without the slot as well. It came from the factory with a receiver sight and scope blocks. I’m thinking very seriously of putting it up for sale on Gunsinternational.
James
These arent the best photos but this is all I have right now. I was experimenting with a different camera, direct sunlight all the less. The rifle is in the 63K serial range. When I return home I will try and post a copy of the letter. Any idea of what one like this would go for in todays dollars??
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00373_zps148050a9.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00377_zps1314b476.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00399_zpsafd82ed7.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00401_zpse82c807a.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00406_zpsd670ea33.jpg.html
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Matt,
I remember looking at Wes Adams guns on line at JDJ, what a beautiful collection. Good luck this time around. Chris, very nice 1894. Thanks for sharing the pictures.
Al
Al,
The rear sight slot delete is quite rare for any of the lever-action models. It was offered, but seldom requested. The odd thing, is that Winchester charged $2.00 extra for it. The only Model that is somewhat common with no rear sight dovetail is the Model 1885, especially the higher grade rifles. The "Special Single Shot Rifle" was actually listed in the catalogs with no provision for a rear (barrel mounted) sight.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hello,
I have documented a few Model 1892’s with no rear sight dove tail cut in the barrel. Again, like the other model mentioned they are very rare.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Bert,
Thanks, for some reason this option intrigues me. Can’t imagine having the ability to order any "factory made"gun today asking that no dovetail be cut into the barrel.
Al
That is a fine looking special order rifle Chris. I sure like the look of it with no rear sight and the full part octagon barrel and full magtube. Looks to be tapered – the barrel – is it an ELW?
Matt
1892Takedown said
These arent the best photos but this is all I have right now. I was experimenting with a different camera, direct sunlight all the less. The rifle is in the 63K serial range. When I return home I will try and post a copy of the letter. Any idea of what one like this would go for in todays dollars??http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00373_zps148050a9.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00377_zps1314b476.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00399_zpsafd82ed7.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00401_zpse82c807a.jpg.html
http://s992.photobucket.com/user/cleto539/media/DSC00406_zpsd670ea33.jpg.html
I forgot about the pictures of that one Chris. Cool special order gun that looks real nice with the pretty wood work and steel butt plate.
Brad
Matt,
Its not a lightweight rifle, just the standard taper. I think the photos are a little deceptive because of the lighting.
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
tionesta1 said
Bert,Thanks, for some reason this option intrigues me. Can’t imagine having the ability to order any "factory made"gun today asking that no dovetail be cut into the barrel.
Al
Al,
When a tang sight or receiver mounted peep sight was special ordered, the rear sight was not needed, and quite often it partially obstructed the view through the peep. Most times, a dovetail blank was installed at a cost of .50 instead of omitting the rear dovetail slot. From an aesthetic view, the lack of the rear sight dovetail slot looks much nicer (in my opinion).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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