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Kid Rich
Joined: 24 Jul 2013
Posts: 2
Location: AZ Territory
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: Reply with quote
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I think his post on bbl lengths was made in 2010. KR
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KR Three years is a blink of the eye in the lifetime of collecting
I am just curious what book Bert was reading at the time he made the
comment about their being no non standard length barrels?
quantrez said
KR Three years is a blink of the eye in the lifetime of collecting I am just curious what book Bert was reading at the time he made the comment about their being no non standard length barrels?
It was nearly three and one-half years ago that I made that statement, and in the ensuing time, I did find one authentic "short" barreled Model 55. In regards to the statement I made in March of 2010, it was based on two things;
(1) Winchester clearly stated in all of their catalogs that only one barrel length would be made for the Model 55, and that no special order lengths would be offered or made.
(2) In my research survey, and in Harold McCallum’s 20-year survey, no Model 55 rifles were found with a non-standard barrel length.
Apparently though, somebody with very deep pockets did convince Winchester to make at least one Model 55 with a 20-inch barrel. Who knows… I may someday find another rifle with something other than a 24-inch barrel, but I am not counting my odds on it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Winchester Model 55 .30-30 at Cabela’s
Reference #: 2922607
Price: $1,250.00
Location:Grandville, MIPhone:616-682-6712Fax:616-532-4416 E-mail:[email protected]
Status available
Fore End Smooth field style fore end.
Gauge .30-30
Manufacture Date 1056XXX.
Metal Condition A good portion of the bluing worn off of the receiver. Some bluing wear by the muzzle and on the lever. Otherwise excellent.
Weight 6 lbs. 14.8 oz.
Sights Open iron sigts.
Bore Condition Very bright and shiny.
Gun Library Grandville, MI
Barrel 25" barrel.
Wood Condition Light handling marks. Slight indents into the wood on the bottom of the foe end, possibly from putting into a rack. "H.P." lightly scratched into the stock.
Butt Original style butt plate.
Stock Smooth English style stock.
I don’t put very much faith in the people in charge of the cabela’s
gun room? But for what it is worth this one is listed with a 25 inch
barrel might be worth a phone call.
Most likely a typo or the guy at cabela’s doesn’t know how to measure a barrel right.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
quantrez said
I don’t put very much faith in the people in charge of the cabela’s gun room? But for what it is worth this one is listed with a 25 inch barrel might be worth a phone call.
It has a 24-inch barrel.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
FWIW, I went back through my emails and found the photos the fellow sent me of the 22" barreled 55 he was selling. Pictures are not the best, but it appears correct. Looks like it has some real nice wood on it at one time too. Gun is pretty rough now, but I think it would have been a nice rifle back in the day.
http://s158.photobucket.com/user/MBCAPELL/media/IMGP0789_zps3287390d.jpg.html
[Image Can Not Be Found]
http://s158.photobucket.com/user/MBCAPELL/media/IMGP0794_zps88ccd7f0.jpg.html
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http://s158.photobucket.com/user/MBCAPELL/media/IMGP0793_zps7c6c5d27.jpg.html
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http://s158.photobucket.com/user/MBCAPELL/media/IMGP0792_zpsa1e4f4ec.jpg.html
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http://s158.photobucket.com/user/MBCAPELL/media/IMGP0790_zps8f44c4b0.jpg.html
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http://s158.photobucket.com/user/MBCAPELL/media/IMGP0791_zps65805b1a.jpg.html
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I guess it goes to show that if something isn’t in the catalog, doesn’t necessarily mean that it couldn’t have been done or offered by Winchester.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1892Takedown said
I guess it goes to show that if something isn’t in the catalog, doesn’t necessarily mean that it couldn’t have been done or offered by Winchester.
My feeling is that back in those days, Winchester was more willing to cater to a customer’s wishes, more likely so to good, repeat customers with deep pockets. If I recall correctly, Winchester catalogs also stated that no other calibers were to be furnished for 1886 ELW rifles other than 45-70. But how many are out there in 45-90, 36-56, etc. I had one in 45-90 myself and it lettered as such. You will also see them with 20", 24", 26" barrels, though they said they would only be furnished with 22" barrels. I think when they put something in the catalog to the general public – or population at large if you will – that was the indeed the plan, to discourage requests for special orders as it was getting more costly for them all the time. But, as I noted, my guess if that good repeat customers, etc, maybe they would bend the guideline a bit. Probably still some "old timers" in the plant who remembered all the special orders they used to do for gentlemen back in the early days, what it felt like for them – the pride -to turn out such special guns with that extra attention to the wood, detail, fit, etc, that they probably looked forward to putting out something once in a while that was more "out of the ordinary" of the more standardized guns the company was putting out in the "later" years. Just look at the 1892 with the offset stock Michael picked up recently. Never say never. I don’t put 100% of my faith in Winchester catalogs nor ledger entries.
Just my thoughts.
Matt
Winchester Catalogs are never the end all say all.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick, that’s exactly my point. Too many times things have been dismissed as wrong or couldn’t be because they aren’t in a catalog.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
The old Winchester catalogs can be a good source of information concerning the product’s that were manufactured by the Winchester Co.
In no way can one profess from the catalogs as they are certainly not
always’ accurate. This is not only true with Winchester I think it would
be safe to assume this with any company in the means of manufacturing
a product and then cataloged?
One point I would like to bring up though is think about this?
The Winchester catalogs were only put at certain time’s during a given year. It takes time to get the catalog’s written printed and put out to
the public so any change’s that were made by Winchester would have been
left out. I feel also that maybe Winchester would omit certain options or
things in general because they felt they would unable to supply the
demand or simply put something out there and see if their is a demand
Just a few things I have thought about over the years. If you really
want to look silly just start quoting out of a catalog and someone will soon
correct you.
Same goes for some of the illustrations in those catalogs. Pretty hard to go strictly by them either. Seems like they used the same ones for years as I’m sure it was a cost saver to not update them for every new change, especially if it wasn’t going to be a permanent one. Also would have been hard to have updated illustrations for every available gun sight, size or configuration as one example.
Brad
quantrez wrote:
KR Three years is a blink of the eye in the lifetime of collecting I am just curious what book Bert was reading at the time he made the comment about their being no non standard length barrels?
It was nearly three and one-half years ago that I made that statement, and in the ensuing time, I did find one authentic "short" barreled Model 55. In regards to the statement I made in March of 2010, it was based on two things;
(1) Winchester clearly stated in all of their catalogs that only one barrel length would be made for the Model 55, and that no special order lengths would be offered or made.
(2) In my research survey, and in Harold McCallum’s 20-year survey, no Model 55 rifles were found with a non-standard barrel length.
Apparently though, somebody with very deep pockets did convince Winchester to make at least one Model 55 with a 20-inch barrel. Who knows… I may someday find another rifle with something other than a 24-inch barrel, but I am not counting my odds on it.
Bert
Bert I am still a little confused I have read and studied timeless hours
in the old Winchester catalogs and I can’t seem to remember Winchester
ever stating in print that They Would Never Manufacture A Model 55 rifle
in anything other than the standard length of 24 inch could you point
me in the direction of which catalog you found your information?
Gentlemen,
I agree that the catalogs published by Winchester are not the definitive (final) answer, but they are basis from which we need to start from. There are definitely some exceptions to the published rule(s), but by any measurable standard, they are quite rare.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
quantrez said
Bert I am still a little confused I have read and studied timeless hours in the old Winchester catalogs and I can’t seem to remember Winchester ever stating in print that They Would Never Manufacture A Model 55 rifle in anything other than the standard length of 24 inch could you point me in the direction of which catalog you found your information?
At the moment, I do not have my catalog collection available to me, as I loaned it to my good friend Larry Shennum.
That stated, the 1925 catalog strongly implies that only a 24-inch barrel would be manufactured and offered (I included a scanned copy of that catalog in the article that I wrote several years ago).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Matt,
Do you have the serial number of that 22-inch barreled Model 55. It sure looks like it is factory original to me ❗
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Matt,Do you have the serial number of that 22-inch barreled Model 55. It sure looks like it is factory original to me ❗
Bert
Yes, I’m pretty certain it can only be factory original. I do not have that info, but I have emailed the original seller to see if he still has that info, or can put me in touch with the new owner. I will see what I can come up with for you Bert.
Matt
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