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I have questions concerning Commemorative Winchester rifles. Some commemoratives come with quite the detail while others only have the simplest of engraving. They also come with a wide spread of pricing. John Wayne commemoratives are quite pricy compared to others. Part of this I can understand because of the level of detail in the engraving.
My question is that are these rifles really worth the cost as collector items. $2000 for a newer rifle that has not been fired? I guess it comes down to what a collector sees value in.
The reason I ask this question is that I have considered collecting firearms but, for myself, have a hard time spending $1000 to $2000 for a rifle, new or old, just to have it hang on the wall.
So there you have it. I would like some input on why you folks collect firearms, whether it be for historical value, or coolness value, or maybe both. Also, if you collect commemoratives, do you use them or just look at them?
Thanks,
Tim
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Tim,
What makes a gun more valuable is mortality and time or its tied to a historic event or person. The problem with commemorative guns is everybody buys them with the idea of sticking them in the closet and not using them so after sitting on them for many years there are the same number of guns out there in the same condition therefore there is no mortality to make the surviving guns more valuable. So if you are collecting them for a investment your going to wait a very long time. Once you use a commemorative it looses it collector value and becomes a shooter.
There are all kind of collectors, some just want shooter guns because they like to use them while others want investment grade guns and don’t care about shooting them and some like the historic aspect about the old guns. Everybody is a little different on what they like. For me i collected many different models but over time I took a liking to the 73 and narrowed my collecting to them.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I have several original Winchesters hanging on the wall that cost me more than $2,000 and I’m happy to have them. There is the daily pleasure of admiring them, they seem to steadily appreciate in value, and sometimes I carefully shoot and hunt with them. It is the feeling of history in your hands and the many falls they hunted. This is why I collect the old originals rather than the commemoratives.
I wanted a 26" barrel model 94 to shoot and hunt with so I searched for a good condition but used commemorative for a good price. I didn’t need a box or hang tag etc. I found a Buffalo Bill Rifle with a few handling marks and maybe a couple boxes of shells down the tube. I got it for $500.00 I put a Montana Vintage Arms combo front sight, Bubble level and Williams FP 94/36 TK peep sight on it and I have a great shooting Model 94 rifle.
My dad bought a 66 Centennial and for decades kept that rifle in the box in the plastic bag never even opening the action. And all these years later the value is squat. Because they made to many of them and 80% are in the same condition as Dads was when he died and his Second Wife decided she should keep it.
Bob’s explanation of the dangers of purchasing commemorative firearms as an investment is right on. If I had purchased a dozen commemorative Winchesters during the 1960’s and 70’s as an investment I would be sorely disappointed with the financial return after 40 odd years. On the other hand if I had bought a dozen high condition 1892 and 1894 Winchesters produced before WW1 during the 1960’s when they could be had cheaply I would be overjoyed with their value today.
I collect Winchesters because of an appreciation for quality and nostalgia. I shoot them occasionally and hunt with them as well. I like to use the tools our grandfathers used to hunt even though I am handicapping myself by doing so sometimes. But I also like red and black wool coats, Maine hunting shoes and boiling tea in an apple juice can with a wire handle over an open fire. Bit of a dinosaur, I guess.
I only own a few. 1 Wells Fargo because they are my Mortgage company. 1 Frontiersman because I always wanted to be one. 1 Limited Edition II because it has the beautiful walnut stock. 1 Hi Grade Legacy 9422M because it was one of the last. 1 of the John Wayne Anniversary – High Grade: 1892 because it was actually the 44-40 which the Duke actually carried.
If they are ever worth more than I paid for them, will be a bonus. At least for the kids because I’ll never sell them…
I have plenty of of selling stock in my Retirement cache..
being interested in Winchesters in the 70’s , I did become interested in Commemeratives . Im glad I didnt go crazy on collecting them because as stated they have been a worse investment than I would have dreamt. My first was a Commanche carbine that was used and I traded my plain 94 to a hunter for it . The gold started chipping off and this was enough to slow down my enthusiasm. It got stolen and didnt replace it. I bought a John Wayne in 81 because I like the 32-40 and was surprised it was resurfacing.Tho I was and still am wondering why Winchester offered it in the wrong model and the wrong cartridge. Although made in high numbers (51,000) it is one of the most sought after now. Now here was a situation I actually came out ahead on The J.W 32-40 cartridges were $10 , and I bought about 20 boxes Wish I didnt shoot about 15 of them.Still have all the boxes in new cond. and shells to reload. Next I bought a Crazy Horse 38-55 for the cal. and 26 in barrel Tho lightweight (this was just before 38-55 resurgence in popularity) It also has beautiful wood (somewhat offset by the tacky Tacks & medallion) . I bought an Annie Oakley because of low production( 6,000) , and curious about 94-22. I did shoot it immediately, the other 2 lasted in the safe about 5 years before I couldnt resist trying them out. The Crazy Horse has a very high front sight causing it to hit about 2 feet low ,( even with the rear at max high notch ) proving Winchester never expected anyone to shoot these. Although very accurate grouping till the thin barrel heats up and walks. Not sorry I ever shot them as they still look new, and what value did I harm ?
In recent years I feel fortunate to have come across 2 Commemerative 30-30 ‘s 26 inch Octagon barrels that were sold dirt cheap because no Boxes , and the owners were embarrassed to be seen shooting them at the range , and of course they are great shooters , ( Being tapped for Williams peeps helped their target potential )but can you imagine the ribbing some poor saps must have endured , showing up to deer camp with one ??
I thought the Legendary Frontiersman was a beautiful gun. I bought it because I liked it. I shoot it because I like the way it shoots. Buying it new at $500. I can probably get my money back as I gently use everything and it is not damaged. I will always have the enjoyment of using it.
Having bought a couple over the years, one thing I have noticed is that some have very high production number 50,000 or 19,999 other are much lower, 1500 or less.
I think higher production guns are also the earlier manufacture ones. According to Robert C. Renneberg "The Winchester Model 94 THE FIRST 100 YEARS" most all Commemoratives are "Third model" Beginning in 1978 The "Fourth model and the "Fifth Model (big Bore guns). These later models represent the return to quality USRAC strive-ed for.
Did they meet their goal? You can decide. Mine seem to indicate they did.
JohnC
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