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94/95 Carbine hybrid?
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March 26, 2014 - 2:27 am
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Nice find there Road King. The Winchester Model 94 from this time frame is very interesting. Within the Depression Era time frame,I would imagine that every Company was doing what they could to keep the Pay Roll going for their workers and staying in business.

Was this Model 94/95 included in Bob R’s research? or is it a new one that surfaced?
As per the Winchester Collector Magazine,(Summer 2012 edition) 50 of these hybrids have been accounted for according to Rick Hill who wrote the article.
I see as per the Serial Number, that Rick didn’t have that one listed in his Article.

I wonder what ever happened with Mark W. if he acquired that Model 94/95 that he found?

Enjoy the Day,hokie

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March 26, 2014 - 5:48 am
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Yes Hokie , this was a recent find that had not been part of Bob’s book research. I am sure there will be more discovered now that we have been educated on them. Wink

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March 26, 2014 - 8:00 am
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Bob Renneberg, Rick Hill, and myself have been tracking and surveying them for the past several years. My survey includes all of those that were originally surveyed by Art Gogan, and all new serial numbers/guns found by Bob, Rick, and myself. I am the keeper of the survey, and I provide periodic updates to Bob and Rick. Currently, there are (52) Model 94/95 hybrids confirmed in the survey.

I have them subdivided into Type-1, Type-2, Type-3, and Type-4, and the types are based on the barrel length and front sight configuration.

Type-1 = 20" barrel, dovetailed front sight.
Type-2 = 20" barrel, pinned blade front sight.
Type-3 = 22" barrel, dovetailed front sight.
Type-4 = 22" barrel, pinned blade front sight

Bert

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March 26, 2014 - 10:22 am
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hokie said
Nice find there Road King. The Winchester Model 94 from this time frame is very interesting. Within the Depression Era time frame,I would imagine that every Company was doing what they could to keep the Pay Roll going for their workers and staying in business.

Was this Model 94/95 included in Bob R’s research? or is it a new one that surfaced?
As per the Winchester Collector Magazine,(Summer 2012 edition) 50 of these hybrids have been accounted for according to Rick Hill who wrote the article.
I see as per the Serial Number, that Rick didn’t have that one listed in his Article.

I wonder what ever happened with Mark W. if he acquired that Model 94/95 that he found?

Enjoy the Day,hokie

hokie I informed the guy holding the rifles for the family that owns them of what I had as far as value and what the rifle was (a 94/95 hybrid and what significants that had in the scheme of things) I then made my best offer making sure they knew that had I not researched the rifle it would have gotten sold as a funny looking shooter for $350-400.00 And that is pretty much where it sits.

It is my understanding the family won’t be doing anything with the firearms from the old mans estate until the old man passes away. Or they get closer to selling the property. All of which could be months to even a couple years away. I was told the old man is in very poor heath and suffering from dementia.

It is my guess that if they accept my offer (and I can invent the money) then it will come my direction. If not then there is a very good chance they will ask me too handle the sale via an auction or somewhere like this forum.

In any case the fat lady ain’t sung and the deal ain’t done……….yet.

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March 26, 2014 - 11:53 am
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Well Mark,
Keep track of it and try not to loose sight of it. Keep in touch with the family, maybe you could even be the broker for all the firearms they want to get rid of.
Good Luck, hokie

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March 26, 2014 - 7:58 pm
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That’s the intention hokie. The guy who is currently in charge of them is the one that asked me to help value them. And I see him at least 2-3 times a week at work. We both run dump trucks he has his own and I drive for a Paving company that works out of the same plant as he does.

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September 21, 2015 - 5:48 pm
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hokie said

Nice find there Road King. The Winchester Model 94 from this time frame is very interesting. Within the Depression Era time frame,I would imagine that every Company was doing what they could to keep the Pay Roll going for their workers and staying in business.

Was this Model 94/95 included in Bob R’s research? or is it a new one that surfaced?
As per the Winchester Collector Magazine,(Summer 2012 edition) 50 of these hybrids have been accounted for according to Rick Hill who wrote the article.
I see as per the Serial Number, that Rick didn’t have that one listed in his Article.

I wonder what ever happened with Mark W. if he acquired that Model 94/95 that he found?

Enjoy the Day,hokie

Yes, I did, presuming that I am the “Mark W” you are referring to.

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September 21, 2015 - 6:06 pm
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Hmmm.  Maybe I’m not the Mark W being referred to, but I have one of the aforementioned hybrids, and I’m a Mark W.  Mine is serial number 10244xx.  I bought it as a “funny looking shooter” at a gun show about 20 years ago in central Texas.  Shortly after that time I discussed it with Art Gogan, who included it in the list. For some reason I started thinking about the hybrid and decided to do some research on the web.  Very interesting discussion here, thanks to each who contributed.

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September 22, 2015 - 6:06 am
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Wow… this topic still lives on, and in respect of its ongoing longevity, I am providing everyone with a detailed update on the status of the Model 94/95 hybrid survey;

The tables below are copied directly from my Excel spreadsheet, which now has a total of (57) surveyed Model 94/95 hybrid specimens. All (57) of them are still in the year 1928, with none of them yet to be found outside of that year.

As I have previously mentioned, per the original Polishing Room serial number application records, there were a total of 25,912 Model 94 receivers made in the year 1928, and that total includes several thousand Model 55 rifles.  As of today, I have surveyed a total of (395) serial numbers made in the year 1928.  Of the number, (78) of them are Model 55 rifles, and (317) are Model 94s.  Of the (317) Model 94s, (45) of them are Sporting Rifles, and (272) are Carbines.  Of the (272) Carbines, (57) of them are the 94/95 hybrids.  When extrapolated, it indicates that a total of (3,739) hybrids were made.  Now, and with that stated, please keep in mind that these numbers that I have presented to you are only preliminary, and that they will most likely change (trending lower) as additional serial numbers are surveyed.  In that regard, if you own, or know of a Model 55 or Model 94 that is in the 1012754 – 1038665 serial number range, please get in touch with me with the details so that I can add it to the survey.

Bert

Variation Barrel Length Front Sight Qty
Type-1 20″ Dovetailed 29
Type-2 20″ Pinned 14
Type-3 22″ Dovetailed 4
Type-4 22″ Pinned 10
       
Total     57
  1928 M55/M94 M55 M94 M94 Rif. M94 Carb M94/95
Totals 25,912 395 78 317 45 272 57
%   1.524% 19.747% 80.253% 14.196% 85.804% 20.956%
Est Prod.     5,117 20,795 2,952 17,843 3,739

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September 23, 2015 - 12:11 am
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But the question in my mind is still; Why?

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September 23, 2015 - 1:29 am
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Mike Hunter said

But the question in my mind is still; Why?

Mike,

If you had approximately 3,700 left over (excess) .30 caliber barrels on hand, would you just pitch them, or rework and use them?  Keep in mind that these were nearly finished barrels, with all sight provisions, bored, rifled, and otherwise ready to be installed.  It appears that Winchester simply made the necessary alterations to fit them up to a Model 94 receiver versus a Model 95.   Of additional interest, I have been able to verify the date stamp on the barrel of several specimens… all of them were “28”.

Bert

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September 23, 2015 - 2:04 pm
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If that’s the case, then there should be a lot more out there. Wondering if that decision was made by middle management on the workroom floor or if it was a corporate decision.

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September 23, 2015 - 11:00 pm
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Mike,

I agree, and I believe that there are at least a few thousand of them “out there” in gun cabinets, closets, etc.   It is important to take into consideration that we “collectors” only see a very small percentage of all the old Winchesters that were made.  To give you an example, I have been surveying the Model 1885 Single Shots for almost 30-years now, and as of right now, I have only found 5.38% of them… where are the other 94.62%?  They most certainly were made and exist, but I have not found them (yet).

Bert

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September 25, 2015 - 1:04 pm
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September 25, 2015 - 4:19 pm
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A likely scenario about using the obsolete 95 barrel surplus may have originated from a Warehouse employee needing space to stack new items. He would inquire to his boss what are these and where can we shift them, The issue would go up the ladder until a bean counter would get the assignment to do a costing project on using the obsolete stock up. Options would include factors of scrap metal proceeds, possibly solicitating   sale to a parts dealer, or  in a possibly in less busy work schedule ,the estimated cost to adopt the barrels for the 94 Carbines (which in this case was agreed upon)

I am imagining the incredulous reaction of Employees back then,  if they only knew that mundane daily operations would provide us with trivia that we spend time pondering , thrive on , and meticulously survey and document

Phil

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September 27, 2015 - 1:14 am
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Here is another one up for sale. Bert, not sure if you have this one in your survey. Mike this would be a good one for you to buy and examine. Looks like real nice condition

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=509565675

 

Brian

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September 27, 2015 - 2:49 am
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Brian,

Thanks… I already had that 94/95 hybrid in the survey.  Below is my survey document showing all of the 94/95 hybrids found this far.

Serial No. Variation Caliber Barrel Length Front Sight DOM Barrel Date  
1014894 Type-3 30 W.C.F. 22″ Dovetailed 1/26/1928    
1024116 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 5/19/1928    
1024455 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 5/25/1928    
1025007 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/4/1928    
1025016 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/4/1928    
1025214 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/7/1928    
1025339 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 6/7/1928    
1025460 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/9/1928    
1025506 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/11/1928 28  
1025936 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/16/1928 28  
1026225 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 6/19/1928 28  
1027124 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 6/30/1928    
1027816 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 7/16/1928    
1027817 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 7/16/1928    
1027842 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 7/16/1928    
1027955 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 7/17/1928    
1028070 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 7/18/1928    
1028178 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 7/23/1928    
1028299 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 7/23/1928    
1028788 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 8/1/1928    
1029502 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 8/8/1928    
1029742 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 8/13/1928    
1029940 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 8/14/1928    
1030775 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 8/24/1928    
1031207 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 8/31/1928 28  
1031403 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/6/1928    
1031413 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/6/1928    
1031481 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/7/1928 28  
1031698 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/11/1928    
1031760 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/11/1928    
1031778 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/11/1928    
1031847 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/12/1928    
1031906 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/13/1928    
1031907 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 9/13/1928    
1031911 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/13/1928    
1031991 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/13/1928    
1031999 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/13/1928    
1032143 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/17/1928    
1032290 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/19/1928    
1032291 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/19/1928    
1032377 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/20/1928    
1032579 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/24/1928    
1032618 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/24/1928    
1032663 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/1/1928    
1032687 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/24/1928    
1032795 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/25/1928    
1032813 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/25/1928    
1032835 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/25/1928    
1032846 Type-1 30 W.C.F. 20″ Dovetailed 9/25/1928    
1032942 Type-3 30 W.C.F. 22″ Dovetailed 9/26/1928    
1033178 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/27/1928    
1033180 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/27/1928    
1033259 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 9/28/1928    
1033422 Type-2 30 W.C.F. 20″ Pinned blade 10/1/1928    
1033596 Type-3 30 W.C.F. 22″ Dovetailed 10/2/1928    
1034204 Type-4 30 W.C.F. 22″ Pinned blade 10/17/1928    
1035596 Type-3 30 W.C.F. 22″ Dovetailed 11/12/1928    
               
Total 57            
               
  1928 M55/M94 M55 M94 M94 Rif. M94 Carb M94/95
Totals 25,912 397 78 319 45 274 57
%   1.532% 19.647% 80.353% 14.107% 85.893% 20.803%
Est. Prod.     5,091 20,821 2,937 17,884 3,720
               
Variation Bbl Front St Qty        
Type-1 20″ Dovetail 29        
Type-2 20″ Pinned 14        
Type-3 22″ Dovetail 4        
Type-4 22″ Pinned 10        
               
Total     57        

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October 7, 2015 - 4:17 am
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Bit of a late revisit to this Thread and catching up.  First thing… Thanks so much Burt for all the effort displayed in developing that relevant & informative XL Spreadsheet product!!!  
Just a small point concerning the mentioned residual tapped holes in the Model 95 barrels as adapted. 

My 94/95, SN 1032846, duly listed on that spreadsheet, has NO extra holes visible whatsoever!  Just a small point re the ‘profile’ provided.  Perhaps an exception?

Just a questioning…

My take

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