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May 18, 2017 - 9:59 pm
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 I am in need of a front sight for My 1892 in 25-20. My rifle was made in 1917. I have a local guy that has several of the Winchester #21 sights for me to choose from. He asked if I needed one with the set screw or not. He was not sure if that vintage had the set screw or not. I know it needs to be .360 high

 

Thanks

Steve

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May 18, 2017 - 11:56 pm
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According to “The Sight Book”, the screw was added in 1910 and discontinued in 1926.  You need the 21A front sight, which was .358″ tall.

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May 20, 2017 - 2:35 am
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Not so sure about the screw from 1910. I have a real nice 1902 shipped 44WCF, M1892 with the round bbl. and it has the brass insert front sight with a screw. This rifle is about a 95%er and shows no evidence of the sight being changed.  I also have a seemingly untouched M1894 shipped in 1907 with the very same sight.    Big Larry

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May 20, 2017 - 2:42 am
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Looking over my data sheets without pulling out all my rifles from the safe, I find all my M1894 rifles up to and including a near mint M1894 38-55 from 1916 have the screw. The 1916 rifle sight is also dated. It is in the back of my safe and so I do not know the date. I didn’t include that info on my data sheet. Big Larry

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May 20, 2017 - 2:06 pm
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My memory is not great, but I think the factory front sight with no screw was only used on the very early 1894’s and 1892’s and the screw was added way before 1910. I would think Bert or Brad would kick in here with the correct info. Peter

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May 20, 2017 - 4:29 pm
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I was under the impression that the set screw was added in 1901 (perhaps Madis accidently reversed the last two digits in the year).

Bert

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May 20, 2017 - 5:10 pm
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FWIW:  Pirkle states in his 1892 section that the presence or absence of the set screw in the No. 21 front sight has no effect on the value of the rifle.  The only loss of value would be if the sight has a threaded hole for the screw and the screw is missing.

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May 20, 2017 - 6:53 pm
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In Madis’s sight book it said 12/20/1910 as to when the screw was added but from personal experience I see the screw appearing around 1895.

Bob

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May 20, 2017 - 7:30 pm
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1873man said
In Madis’s sight book it said 12/20/1910 as to when the screw was added but from personal experience I see the screw appearing around 1895.

Bob  

I also believe the date is closer to what Bob says.  

I have been looking through my files today for the better images of certain front sights to post.   I hesitated to comment because I don’t know anything about 1892s and this is concerning what I’ve observed on 1894s and 1895s.  Hopefully someone like 1892 Takedown or Twobit will also comment on 1892s someday when they have time. 

It’s my opinion from the 1894s and 1895s I’ve looked at that the screws start showing up sometime in the year 1895+/- also.  There also seems to be a transition period of Sporting Front Sights with and without the screw.  

These are two 1st Model 1894s, both in the 1600 s/n range.  I have observed quite a few after this without the screw also, but I think these two are interesting, especially because of the size of the screw head.  I also included an image of the rear sights so that you can see the general condition of the rifles, which appeared pretty much un-messed with to me.  If anyone has any other early rifles with this type of screw head, please comment or let me know.

0001600-range-1st-M.jpgImage Enlarger0001600-range-1st-Ms.jpgImage Enlarger

0001600-range-rear-sights-1st-Ms.jpgImage Enlarger

This next one is a 1st Model 1895 with an image of the rear sight also for the same reason.  I have looked at a lot of early 1895s that have front sights with the screw. SN 3481

003640-1st-Model-1895-38-72.jpgImage Enlarger003640-1st-Model-1895-rear.jpgImage Enlarger

Here’s a higher condition ELW 1894 without the screw.  Ramped ELW 1894s and the ramped M 1895 sporting rifles often do not have a sporting front sight with the screw.  I imagine that could have had something to do with the narrow ramp and sight base? SN 67000 range.

67100-range-ELW.jpgImage Enlarger

Earlier 1894 in low condition, s/n 134369

134369-1894.jpgImage Enlarger

1/2 OB full magazine 25-35, 148607  These should have the tall front sight blade, you can see this one has been filed narrow rather than being swapped for something else:

SI-0148607-01.JPGImage EnlargerSI-0148607-02.jpgImage Enlarger

The 1902 patent date that is found on some sporting front sights, but also other sights including carbine and musket blades, relates to this in case anyone is wondering why it’s found various sights:

US712863-1.jpgImage EnlargerUS712863-2.jpgImage Enlarger

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Brad Dunbar

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May 20, 2017 - 9:13 pm
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I have a Model 1892 rifle in 32-20 W.C.F. made in 1895 that is in excellent condition.  I purchased it from a collector who said he got it decades earlier from an estate.  It has the # 21 front sight with the set screw and I’m quite certain it is original.

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May 21, 2017 - 12:03 am
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Here is the one I picked up today. It matches the one on my 32-20. It is right at .358 high. I was told this was an original for the 1892’s and not a reproduction. Looks original to me.

Steve

 

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May 21, 2017 - 1:22 am
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Brad,

I haven’t seen a 21 front with a big screw like that before but most of my collecting is antique.

Bob

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May 21, 2017 - 2:08 pm
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Good morning guys,

Based on my data from the Model 1892 survey I am working on the set screw front sights appear fairly consistently in 1895.  There certainly are 1894 vintage guns with them that may be replacements or the rifle not being fully assembled until a while after the SNA date.  

Michael

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May 21, 2017 - 3:53 pm
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1873man said
Brad,

I haven’t seen a 21 front with a big screw like that before but most of my collecting is antique.

Bob  

Maybe they tried it and quickly decided they were better off using a smaller screw/screw head?

 

Thanks twobit.

Regards

Brad Dunbar

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