Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
500grs 45-70 round head in 1886?
Avatar
F.K.
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 43
Member Since:
September 16, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
November 21, 2020 - 11:29 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi everybody, 

I do have a reprint of the Winchester catalogue of 1894. So great Info there, but one thing really puzzles me:

The 500gr government cartridge of the .45-70, round head is advertised as being suitable for the 1886 model!

Wasn’t that an invitation for a lawsuit? Round bullets in a mag tube???! ? 

I have found pictures of the vintage 405grs version with flat heads, but not with the 500grs. 

So what was Winchester thinking? 

Where there flat heads of the 500grs at all existent? 

Can anybody help? 

Thank you very much!! 

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6470
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2
November 21, 2020 - 1:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

F.K.-

It was a different time, apparently they didn’t see it as a problem. Nowadays, regardless of the actual risk, almost no one will go on record condoning the practice of anything but a flat point bullet in a tubular magazine. Times have changed, physics haven’t.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
steve004
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5210
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
November 21, 2020 - 1:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I wonder if it is because there are flat bullets, round bullets and pointed bullets.  For example, some .30-30 bullets are round vs. flat.  A lot of .35 Remington ammunition bullets are round – and get used in Marlin M336’s.

Avatar
86Win
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 316
Member Since:
March 15, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
November 21, 2020 - 2:17 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I got my 86 in 1959 and then could get government surplus 45-70-500 round nose for $2 a box (10 cents a round).  I shot many in my rifle. I think they were from trapdoor days. I think might still have some of the brass. Don

Avatar
steve004
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5210
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
November 21, 2020 - 3:55 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

[email protected] said
I got my 86 in 1959 and then could get government surplus 45-70-500 round nose for $2 a box (10 cents a round).  I shot many in my rifle. I think they were from trapdoor days. I think might still have some of the brass. Don  

Don –

I wonder how similar the rate of twist was in your ’86 vs. the Trapdoor Springfield?  Do you recall how accurate the 500’s were in your ’86?  I suppose Winchester matched the rate of twist up to 400 grain bullets in the ’86?

Avatar
86Win
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 316
Member Since:
March 15, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
November 21, 2020 - 9:22 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I was 20 years old then and paid scant little attention to accuracy. Just went to my brothers farm and shot at most anything out in the fields. Don

Avatar
jwm94
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1118
Member Since:
May 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
November 21, 2020 - 10:28 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

About the only thing that I know of about round nose bullets and magazine guns is that the problem was supposedly solved not long after the 1878 military trials concerning the 45-70 cartridge and large Berdan primers.

Hope this helps.

James

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: slk, TXGunNut, Erin Grivicich, macolle, MNwin, fzando, djwalsh
Guest(s) 637
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6469
Chuck: 5873
steve004: 5210
1873man: 4703
deerhunter: 2711
Big Larry: 2559
twobit: 2505
mrcvs: 2213
Maverick: 2042
Newest Members:
djwalsh
fzando
WASpalding
WinKorm94
Wallyg703
GunLegacy
tcwyb
spikemiller
ob98
Ricky Summer
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14816
Posts: 132578

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2057
Members: 10051
Moderators: 3
Admins: 4
Administrators: Mike Hager, Bert H., JWA, SethJ
Moderators: Rob Kassab, Brad Dunbar, Heather
Navigation