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Hello All,
I just got a model 86 in 38-70. Its definitely not in collector grade condition. Bert H told me only about 830 or so were made in this caliber. Does the collector world shun this caliber like the 38-56?
Manuel
Manuel,
The reason the 38-56 is not thought of that highly is its just a more common caliber than the 38-70. I have owned several 38-70’s over the years and was really impressed with their accuracy at 200 yards.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I would be thrilled to own an original ’86 in 38-70 due to its rarity. I certainly would not shun it.
I think the 38-70 was an "so what ctg"
Winchester had the 38-56, if you needed something bigger then you opted for the 40 cals (40-65/40-82 etc), or 45 cals
I also would think that the reload-ability had somewhat to do with the unfavorable view of 38-70 in the past. Now a days you can practically get the supplies to reload almost any caliber. I wouldn’t mind having a Winchester in 38-70, at all.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
I would agree with the availability of ammo in the old days making it unfavorable to use but in regards to the collectabililty of it today I don’t think that a issue. The only thing I can think of that affect the value of a gun like this is the rule of bore size. The bigger the bore the more its worth.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Wow thank you all for the responses! I wish it was in better condition but it sounds like a found a winner. From what I’ve read it was introduced in 1894…after checking their serial number my rifle was born in 1894!! Is there any record of what serial number was the first 86 in 38-70? If anyone of you can help me out with that the number is 95832.
Oh, by the way it came with an original box of UMC cartridges. 3 unfired and 14 spent cases. Box is tattered but beggers can’t be choosers!
Thanks again guys!
Manuel,
There was a article written in the Winchester collector if I remember right which someone researched the 86 records and it was around 18,000 that the 38-70 was introduced. I got a copy someplace.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I would love to read it. So is the 1894 year wrong then for the introduction of the 38-70 for the 86?
Generally, the larger the bore diameter, the higher the value, when it relates to the Winchester 1886. The .33 WCF can be had relatively cheaply, whereas the .50-110 Express and the .50-100-450 Express are generally 5-figure firearms these days (dependent on condition). Having said that, only 830 .38-70’s were made, and the rarity would substantiate a premium. It certainly would be worth more than the more run-of-the-mill .38-56, and I would surmise that values would equal, if not exceed slightly, a comparable rifle in .45-70 or .45-90. I would think that a museum quality .38-70 could significantly exceed the value of a comparable .45-70 or .45-90, especially if there were many special order features. Out of 830 rifles, only a very small number are going to be pristine and/or have many special order features. What is the condition of yours and are there many features?
I have read that the 1886 in 40-70 is also a rare caliber with only 800 or so produced. Is that true?
Thanks,
Al
According to the data published by John Madl there were 862 Model 1886 rifles chambered for .40-70
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
According to the data published by John Madl there were 862 Model 1886 rifle chambered for .40-70Michael
Thanks Michael, you guys are a wealth of information.
Mrcvs,
It is just a regular sporting rifle that was probably cc hardened. You can still see traces of color on the inside lever. I haven’t measure the barrel length but it looks to be standard length. I will measure it tonight. I would post pictures but I don’t belong to a file sharing sight. I can email them to someone to post?
Mjuarez0829 said
Mrcvs,It is just a regular sporting rifle that was probably cc hardened. You can still see traces of color on the inside lever. I haven’t measure the barrel length but it looks to be standard length. I will measure it tonight. I would post pictures but I don’t belong to a file sharing sight. I can email them to someone to post?
Okay, based on how you have described your rifle, it sounds like it lacks condition. I would see what Winchester 1886’s have sold for (not what they are listed for, but what they have actually sold for) that are in .45-70. I would think that a comparable condition .45-70 would be nearly identical to the .38-70 you have, within $100-$250. The comparable rarity of this calibre is what dictates the higher price, not the bore diameter.
Mjuarez0829 said
I would love to read it. So is the 1894 year wrong then for the introduction of the 38-70 for the 86?
According to the article the first one was at about 18,000 and the second was at about 85,000.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Yes I read the article. Thanks! I was hoping I might have had one of the first one! 8)
Would like to read the 1886 article referred to here. What issue is it in?
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Its a hard one to find since its miss titled. Its in the Spring 1991 issue page 39 titled Survey of Available Winchester Model 1866 Records. It should read 1886.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks. I now remember seeing that 1866/1886 error a few years ago when past issues became available for viewing. Would never have figured it out now, though.
Someone should put together an index going back to the start – might be a nice winter project. Hmmmm
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
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