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Hi everyone, glad to be here. When my dad passed away i received one of his rifles. 1969 300-win mag model 70. I have been working up a load for it and can’t get good groups. Been using 180 grains with r-22, H-1000. I’m handcuffed to length of ammo because of blind magazine. Do anyone here have any ideas on how and what i can use to get better groups. Thanks everyone in advance.
Welcome to the site, Scrounger.
There are too many variables here to be specific. For starters, you don’t say what level of ‘good group’ you are achieving, or what you expect.
First thing that comes to mind is the quality of bullet. A heavy hunting bullet is not likely to give accuracy on a par with ‘target’ style bullets.
But for what it’s worth, in my 300 Win Mag, I achieved best results with IMR 4350 with both 150 grain and 180 grain bullets (Nosler).
NP
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Nevada Paul said
Welcome to the site, Scrounger.There are too many variables here to be specific. For starters, you don’t say what level of ‘good group’ you are achieving, or what you expect.
First thing that comes to mind is the quality of bullet. A heavy hunting bullet is not likely to give accuracy on a par with ‘target’ style bullets.
But for what it’s worth, in my 300 Win Mag, I achieved best results with IMR 4350 with both 150 grain and 180 grain bullets (Nosler).
NP
I too am a fan and user of IMR 4350 for Magnum cartridges (I exclusively use it for my 7mm Mag).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I shoot 180s out of my 300 win mag on top of RL22 75 grains with my 1994 Remington 700, and shoot sub moa out to 200 yards. As stated there are too many variables to answer your question.
FWIW at some point you will need a belt resizing die, as you will find the cases will no longer chamber in your rifle.
Out of the 10 or so pigs and deer, only one shot was ever needed to drop them in their tracks.
H-4350 for the short [30/06 length] magnums has worked for me, specifically the .300 Winchester and either of the Remington or Weatherby sevens.
I don’t recall whether the 1969 Model 70 barrels were furnished with a 1 in 10 twist or a 1 in 12, very probably the former. However, there are some very, very long bullets available these days. (I’m thinking now of some .284 projectiles that really want a 1 in 7.5, which would wobble from the muzzle of my old Sauer-built Mark V and its 1 in 12 barrel.) Might you be using the wrong bullet for your barrel?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
I believe Model 70s in 300 Win mag use a 1-10, as does not Remington 700 BDL. My 1952 Model 70 in 300 H&H is also a 1-10.
Nevada Paul said
Welcome to the site, Scrounger.There are too many variables here to be specific. For starters, you don’t say what level of ‘good group’ you are achieving, or what you expect.
First thing that comes to mind is the quality of bullet. A heavy hunting bullet is not likely to give accuracy on a par with ‘target’ style bullets.
But for what it’s worth, in my 300 Win Mag, I achieved best results with IMR 4350 with both 150 grain and 180 grain bullets (Nosler).
NP
Im getting 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at a 100 yards and that’s not good enough. Been using Hornady sst 180 grain bullets with the r-22 and H-1000. My next try is going to be 165 grain bullet but i really don’t know what powder gives me the best chance at a less than 3/4 inch group at 100 yards. Was hoping that someone had a recipe for a 165 grain hunting load. I want to go out to at least 600 yards. This is a 1 and 10 twist,24 inch barrel.
Zebulon said
H-4350 for the short [30/06 length] magnums has worked for me, specifically the .300 Winchester and either of the Remington or Weatherby sevens.I don’t recall whether the 1969 Model 70 barrels were furnished with a 1 in 10 twist or a 1 in 12, very probably the former. However, there are some very, very long bullets available these days. (I’m thinking now of some .284 projectiles that really want a 1 in 7.5, which would wobble from the muzzle of my old Sauer-built Mark V and its 1 in 12 barrel.) Might you be using the wrong bullet for your barrel?
1 and 10 twist 24 inch barrel
Scrounger said
Nevada Paul said
Welcome to the site, Scrounger.
There are too many variables here to be specific. For starters, you don’t say what level of ‘good group’ you are achieving, or what you expect.
First thing that comes to mind is the quality of bullet. A heavy hunting bullet is not likely to give accuracy on a par with ‘target’ style bullets.
But for what it’s worth, in my 300 Win Mag, I achieved best results with IMR 4350 with both 150 grain and 180 grain bullets (Nosler).
NP
Im getting 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at a 100 yards and that’s not good enough. Been using Hornady sst 180 grain bullets with the r-22 and H-1000. My next try is going to be 165 grain bullet but i really don’t know what powder gives me the best chance at a less than 3/4 inch group at 100 yards. Was hoping that someone had a recipe for a 165 grain hunting load. I want to go out to at least 600 yards. This is a 1 and 10 twist,24 inch barrel.
I think 1.5 inch, honest groups with that rifle would be considered by most folks to be suitable accuracy for a hunting rifle, off the shelf in 300 Win Mag.
As a target shooter, I, too, commonly attempted to squeeze ‘target’ level accuracy from my hunting rifles. I sometimes got them down to 3/4 inch, but not often. Usually settled for 1 inch or a little worse. In the field, that level of ‘accuracy’ or ‘inaccuracy’ is not likely to cause you to miss your target.
NP
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
I agree with Nevada +1 for sure.
Also are you shootings sub MOA with any other hunting rifle? Could be you with that Model 70.
Nevada Paul said
Scrounger said
Nevada Paul said
Welcome to the site, Scrounger.
There are too many variables here to be specific. For starters, you don’t say what level of ‘good group’ you are achieving, or what you expect.
First thing that comes to mind is the quality of bullet. A heavy hunting bullet is not likely to give accuracy on a par with ‘target’ style bullets.
But for what it’s worth, in my 300 Win Mag, I achieved best results with IMR 4350 with both 150 grain and 180 grain bullets (Nosler).
NP
Im getting 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at a 100 yards and that’s not good enough. Been using Hornady sst 180 grain bullets with the r-22 and H-1000. My next try is going to be 165 grain bullet but i really don’t know what powder gives me the best chance at a less than 3/4 inch group at 100 yards. Was hoping that someone had a recipe for a 165 grain hunting load. I want to go out to at least 600 yards. This is a 1 and 10 twist,24 inch barrel.
I think 1.5 inch, honest groups with that rifle would be considered by most folks to be suitable accuracy for a hunting rifle, off the shelf in 300 Win Mag.
As a target shooter, I, too, commonly attempted to squeeze ‘target’ level accuracy from my hunting rifles. I sometimes got them down to 3/4 inch, but not often. Usually settled for 1 inch or a little worse. In the field, that level of ‘accuracy’ or ‘inaccuracy’ is not likely to cause you to miss your target.
NP
Not acceptable.
The Model 70, pre or post 1963, was never designed nor intended by its manufacturer to make sub MOA groups. Not even the target and varmint styles of the Model were guaranteed by New Haven to do so. Particularly in the magnum calibers. The basic action design is not suited to the task, being too flexible.
That is not to say that some won’t, after modifications to the bedding, endless tinkering with the action bolts.with a torque wrench, and the expenditure of quantities of loading components. But like a golf club, a standard Model 70 .300 Win Mag is ill suited to the task.
It used to be conventional wisdom that the short magnums delivered best accuracy at close to maximum safe breech pressures. I have no idea whether that was ever true. Given that you can burn out a .300 Winchester barrel in less than a 1000 rounds at the bench with such loads, getting there may be all the fun.
The excellent Utah custom gunmaker D’arcy Echols was once tasked by a customer with building a heavy game rifle to be used on an upcoming African elephant hunt. The customer demanded it be capable of sub-MOA accuracy.
Echols asked, “How small a $&*¿%&$ elephant are we talking about?”
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
The Model 70, pre or post 1963, was never designed nor intended by its manufacturer to make sub MOA groups. Not even the target and varmint styles of the Model were guaranteed by New Haven to do so. Particularly in the magnum calibers. The basic action design is not suited to the task, being too flexible.That is not to say that some won’t, after modifications to the bedding, endless tinkering with the action bolts.with a torque wrench, and the expenditure of quantities of loading components. But like a golf club, a standard Model 70 .300 Win Mag is ill suited to the task.
It used to be conventional wisdom that the short magnums delivered best accuracy at close to maximum safe breech pressures. I have no idea whether that was ever true. Given that you can burn out a .300 Winchester barrel in less than a 1000 rounds at the bench with such loads, getting there may be all the fun.
The excellent Utah custom gunmaker D’arcy Echols was once tasked by a customer with building a heavy game rifle to be used on an upcoming African elephant hunt. The customer demanded it be capable of sub-MOA accuracy.
Echols asked, “How small a $&*¿%&$ elephant are we talking about?”
Thanks
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