1967 Model 70 questions|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Hi Boe-

I’m not much use when it comes to post-63 Model 70s, but the following information is drawn from the last chapter of Roger Rule’s M70 book:

– Beginning in 1966 “stocks of all styles received countersunk nickel plated rivets which were filled with Bakelite plugs, one for standard calibers and two for magnums”.  These were added due to stock breakage caused by the less precise bedding tolerances of post-63 stocks.  Rule did not mention the diameter of the plugs on post-63 stocks.  They look to be about 3/8″ diameter, but I do not have one to measure.

–  From 1964 until 1967 the trigger guard was changed to “a painted aluminum die casting for all styles except the African” from the “anodized wrought aluminum” used on the Pre-64 Featherweight.  In 1968 this was changed to “an aluminum die casting…given a black chrome finish to match the magazine cover assembly”.  

I hope this helps.  My sense is that everything about your rifle is likely factory original.  Winchester was not known for quality wood working during this period and the rifle may well have left the factory with the poorly fitted plug.  As for the guard bow, it’s either “painted” aluminum or “black chrome” plated, depending on when your rifle (with 1967 PR date receiver) was actually assembled.

I do not know of a source for replacement parts (Bakelite plugs) but I suspect you could make one.  I’m also not confident I can recommend anyone in particular to re-plate the trigger guard to match the floor plate (assuming it’s plated and not painted).  I’ve had various aluminum parts (Stith scope mount parts) re-anodized in the past (but not with the intent of matching another part on the gun), so no help there either.

Best,

Lou  

Zebulon said
There are a lot of materials sufficiently similar to  Bakelite available in sheet stock, from which plugs could be milled. 
However, the better solution is to obtain a block of a dark wood or wood treated to resemble Ebony, like Ebonex. Bandsaw a sheet off the block of correct thickness and use a plug-cutter to cut a slightly oversized tapered plug. Ebony itself is too brittle and difficult a wood to use for this purpose, in my experience. However, it is generally easier in a small shop.to make plugs from natural wood than artificial materials that respond less well to woodworking blades and bits. 
  

Cocobolo would be a good option.  Dark examples of Cocobolo are almost as dark as ebony. And the reddish hue should blend nicely with the walnut stock.  I have a pool cue made of cocobolo and burled walnut. Makes a nice combination.

Nevada Paul said

Zebulon said
There are a lot of materials sufficiently similar to  Bakelite available in sheet stock, from which plugs could be milled. 
However, the better solution is to obtain a block of a dark wood or wood treated to resemble Ebony, like Ebonex. Bandsaw a sheet off the block of correct thickness and use a plug-cutter to cut a slightly oversized tapered plug. Ebony itself is too brittle and difficult a wood to use for this purpose, in my experience. However, it is generally easier in a small shop.to make plugs from natural wood than artificial materials that respond less well to woodworking blades and bits. 
  

Cocobolo would be a good option.  Dark examples of Cocobolo are almost as dark as ebony. And the reddish hue should blend nicely with the walnut stock.  I have a pool cue made of cocobolo and burled walnut. Makes a nice combination.
  

Paul,  Concur. Cocobolo would be a great choice and it’s much easier to work with. Got a couple of sticks of Gabon Ebony – heavy like Lead – and tried to make drawer pulls.  The work blew up on the router table. 

Zebulon said

Tedk said
Welcome to WACA Boe
Do you feel that it’s possible to remove the black plastic crossbolt covers without marring the stock and adjacent finish? Is it possible to ‘sand’ the plugs flush with the wood on the side where they’re slightly raised? I’d most likely live with the plugs as they are.
My sense is that it would be difficult to refinish the trigger bow and have it match the floor plate whether it’s painted or plated.
I’d look for a replacement trigger bow on eBay
  

To remove the existing plugs requires a good clamp setup and a drill press. Use an undersized Forstner bit. Establish center with the bit first, substitute an inexpensive hss of very small diameter to determine depth of existing plug — i.e. where the plug ends and the steel bolt begins. Set the depth stop on the press to a hair less, to spare the expensive Forstner from damage. Re-chuck the Forstner and remove all but a thin film of plug. Use a razor sharp mortise chisel and a patient hand to remove the remnant of plug. 
  

All that’s way above my pay grade, I’d just wipe the gun down live with it as it is

Additionally, do the two plugs that are flush also have to be removed so everything matches?

Have major doubts that all of this precision work can be accomplished without messing up the adjacent wood finish and winding up looking worse than before the project was started

Zebulon said
You would need to do both sides. It’s not as hard as it sounds IF you can stabilize the work perpendicular to the bit — meaning a machinist’s drill press vice, jaw height extensions, padding. And a press with minimal runout. 
The alternative, shaving the plugs flush to the surface of the stock,  is a non-starter unless you’re willing to refinish the stock. 
  

Different materials, but aren’t grinders used to fit recoil pads on finished stocks? 
Isn’t the finished stock just taped off?

Hi Boe-

As far as dating your rifle…  The serial number lookup tool on this site is based on Polishing Room (Serial Number Application Date) records.  This is the date the serial number was applied to the RECEIVER.  For 1967 it was 855861 through 873694, and for 1968 it was 873695 through 929990.  However, SNA date is NOT “rifle manufacture” date, as serialized receivers usually sat around for a while before being used to build rifles.  Moreover, receivers were not necessarily used in numerical order by the assemblers.  The true “assembly date” is unknown/unknowable (no surviving records), but for popular calibers/non-specialized receivers it would be within a few months of the PR date.

In other words, if your rifle has a late 1967 serial number it was almost certainly built in 1968.  Also, as Bert said, the GCA68 was passed in November 1968 so wasn’t implemented until sometime in 1969.  I do not know the serial number of the first “G” receiver, but your rifle would predate it whether it was made in 1967 or 1968.

I do not know about the minor changes to post-63 trigger guards (or their finishes) beyond what Roger Rule stated in his book.  On pre-64 M70 Featherweights (1952-1963), it’s not uncommon for the black anodized (not plated) guards and floor plates to not match in terms of polish/sheen.  Apparently the “painted” aluminum trigger guards used from 1964-1967 were very poor matches for the floor plates, hence the change to black chrome in an effort to improve appearance.  If I really wanted them to match, I think I would find a shop that does black chrome plating (preferably on gun parts) and have them re-plate BOTH the trigger guard and floor plate.  I suspect that the (grit of final) polish would have more of an impact on appearance than the exact color.  

I do not know the exact procedure used to install the plugs, but I suspect they were glued in place BEFORE the final stock sanding and BEFORE finish was applied.  At least on pre-64 Africans (which used similar Bakelite plugs), the lacquer finish covers both the wood and plug.  Just as it’s possible to install a good fitting recoil pad to an already finished stock without refinishing the stock, it should be possible to replace the plugs, get them flush, and overlay a bit of lacquer without it being noticeable as long as the plugs themselves are black (like the originals). It just takes time/patience.  The factory didn’t need to worry about it b/c the plugs went in before the stock was finished. You’d have to decide whether to replace just the cracked one or both.  

As for impact on value.  First off, post-63 Model 70s, especially those from the 1960s, have little “collector” interest as the design and cosmetic changes introduced in 1964 are a turn off for most “pre-64 centric” collectors.  So the rifle isn’t particularly “valuable” to begin with.  264 WIN MAGNUM was pretty popular (not “rare”), although the near new condition of your rifle is a plus.  What you have is likely to be an excellent/accurate shooting/hunting rifle, not a “collector’s prize”.  In general, I think these guns are somewhere in the $800-1000 range in excellent condition, but that’s just my non-scientific guesstimate…

So as long as your repairs are well executed (improve the appearance of the rifle) I doubt they would have any negative impact on resale value.

Just my take,

Lou

Tedk said

Zebulon said
You would need to do both sides. It’s not as hard as it sounds IF you can stabilize the work perpendicular to the bit — meaning a machinist’s drill press vice, jaw height extensions, padding. And a press with minimal runout. 
The alternative, shaving the plugs flush to the surface of the stock,  is a non-starter unless you’re willing to refinish the stock. 
  

Different materials, but aren’t grinders used to fit recoil pads on finished stocks? 
Isn’t the finished stock just taped off?
  

Yes but grinding off material that meets a long edge is less hazardous, to my mind, than grinding a relatively small spot in the big middle of a finished wood surface.

A post production recoil pad job is done with a mounted belt sander, the stock/pad held by the ‘smith in both hands in good light. He is focused on keeping the edge of the running belt just at but not over the junction of the black pad backer with the taped wood. Unless he is an old wizard, he stays back a couple of thousandths and returns with paper on a block to eliminate a palpable ridge. Easy to say, hard to do. 

Theoretically, you COULD chuck a Dremel flat faced grinding stone into a drill press and get the press speed up as high as it would go, although stone tools aren’t meant for cutting Bakelite and don’t work well for the job. Abrasive disks that mount on a backer disk require a screw head that protrudes from the disk face. The only machine that would introduce the work to a grinding disk edge in a controlled fashion – that I know of — would be a lathe. Constructing a fixture to hold the work would be a challenge. 

If the plug protrudes from the surface of the stock, say, 1/32″ or more, I’d be inclined to use a flexible, flush-cutting cabinet maker’s saw to remove the protrusion and spot refinish the new spot of raw Bakelite/wood. These little hand tools have a row of teeth pitched upward and are made to cut protruding plugs off the face of stock. They will haze any finish on the face.