January 20, 2023
OfflineBRP has just described one of the happiest aspects of the Super 30 – its long, asparagus-like shape. When pukka Sahib has flesh wounded a 600 pound Bengal Tiger just enough to get its undivided murderous attention, hanging up the next round’s 25 degree shoulder – a feature of the 300 Winchester and other contemporary magnum cartridges — on the chamber face of his magazine rifle, from the adrenaline fueled violence of his bolt work, would be……ungood.
At best, Sahib’s bush shorts would never be the same. At worst, what’s left of him would go home in a small rubber bag.
I don’t think Holland’s reason for shaping the case was anything other than enabling the long strands of Cordite to be loaded on a production line. But, if I were going Bengal Tiger stalking on foot in a jungle, I think a Super 30 or its big brother 375 Belted Magnum Rimless would be comforting. If I couldn’t have a Colt Monitor….
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
June 1, 2023
OfflineBo, Zeb, and I can certainly form the nucleus of the Holland Super 30 fan club!
As Bo echoes my sentiments about the accuracy of the 300 H&H, it is perhaps redundant of me to mention that the 1935 Wimbledon Cup at Camp Perry Ohio was won by Ben Comfort shooting a Rem****** Model 30-S Express rifle that had been re-barreled to 300 H&H. That may have been one of the reasons Winchester chose to offer their brand new Model 70 rifle in that chambering in 1936.
Down in my man cave I have exactly ONE Western factory round of .275 H&H —- that’s right, not 375, but 275 H&H Magnum. As I look at that single cartridge, it seems to me that wider acceptance of that cartridge would have rendered all the other (later) 7mm Magnums superfluous.
BRP
January 20, 2023
OfflineActually, it was a 275 Holland that led to the watershed 7mm Remington Magnum. While Warren Page was a major proponent of 7mm magnum cartridges, particularly the 7mm Mashburn Short Magnum, he was not the progenitor.
The Wyoming outfitter Les Bowman had been given a 275 Holland rifle by Jack O’Connor. Bowman guided for Elk and his clients used the rifle to great success. Fred Huntington, chief of RCBS, was a friend and client of Bowman and learned from Bowman how impressed he was with the round, although ammunition and .288 bullets were a problem.
Huntington went home to Lewiston, Idaho and used the new 338 Winchester Magnum case to create a 7mm wildcat cartridge, necking it down to .284 to employ commonly available bullets. RCBS made up a set of dies to go with the rifle and a quantity of ammunition and components, and sent the package down to Wyoming. Bowman and his clients tested the rifle and cartridge extensively on game of all sizes and Bowman became very enthusiastic.
Remington design engineers Wayne Leek and Mike Walker were also clients of Bowman and came to hunt and visit. After range testing the rifle and cartridge and reviewing Bowman’s game logs, they got Bowman to come to Ilion and help persuade upper management to adopt the cartridge. Remington made a couple of minor changes to ease production and applied to SAAMI for standardization of the 7mm Remington Magnum. Just in time to be included in the list of available calibers for which the new Remington 700 rifle would be first offered, in 1962. It would quickly become a top selling chambering in the new rifle.
It was the Remington Model 700 and its 7mm Remington Magnum cartridge that brought the Pre64 Model 70 temple to the ground in 1964. I was there and saw it.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 15, 2005
OfflineZebulon said
Actually, it was a 275 Holland that led to the watershed 7mm Remington Magnum. While Warren Page was a major proponent of 7mm magnum cartridges, particularly the 7mm Mashburn Short Magnum, he was not the progenitor.
The Wyoming outfitter Les Bowman had been given a 275 Holland rifle by Jack O’Connor. Bowman guided for Elk and his clients used the rifle to great success. Fred Huntington, chief of RCBS, was a friend and client of Bowman and learned from Bowman how impressed he was with the round, although ammunition and .288 bullets were a problem.
Huntington went home to Lewiston, Idaho and used the new 338 Winchester Magnum case to create a 7mm wildcat cartridge, necking it down to .284 to employ commonly available bullets. RCBS made up a set of dies to go with the rifle and a quantity of ammunition and components, and sent the package down to Wyoming. Bowman and his clients tested the rifle and cartridge extensively on game of all sizes and Bowman became very enthusiastic.
Remington design engineers Wayne Leek and Mike Walker were also clients of Bowman and came to hunt and visit. After range testing the rifle and cartridge and reviewing Bowman’s game logs, they got Bowman to come to Ilion and help persuade upper management to adopt the cartridge. Remington made a couple of minor changes to ease production and applied to SAAMI for standardization of the 7mm Remington Magnum. Just in time to be included in the list of available calibers for which the new Remington 700 rifle would be first offered, in 1962. It would quickly become a top selling chambering in the new rifle.
It was the Remington Model 700 and its 7mm Remington Magnum cartridge that brought the Pre64 Model 70 temple to the ground in 1964. I was there and saw it.
Bill,
My father was one of the very early 7MM Magnum fans, and he bought a brand new Model 700 BDL in late 1962… I inherited it in May of 1999. His pet load for it was 64-grains of IMR 4350 under a 160-grain Speer Grand Slam bullet. It really gets your attention when the Federal 215 primer ignites all of that powder!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L

January 20, 2023
OfflineBert, That quantity of 4350 would certainly be attention-getting and your Dad recognized the heavy bullet – 160 grains and up – is what makes the big seven the Big Seven, as Warren Page said. It is at that point the 7mm magnum does what the 26 and 27 caliber belted cartridges can’t match. And, in practice, it will do 99% of what the .30 magnums can do, without the attendant recoil.
There is a limit to what most hunters – not gun nuts like us – can shoot accurately. Ive heard a hundred times from friends who shoot the 7mm Rem Magnum that it “feels like a 30/06.” They don’t say that about the big thirties.
When your Dad bought the BDL, I’d just started college and didn’t start shooting centerfire rifles until 1966, my second year of law school. At a local range, a classmate urged me to try his new 700 ADL, a 7mm Rem. I shot it a couple of times and was amazed at how mild the recoil seemed.
My hunting opportunities have always been limited by time, money, or both and the used Browning High Power 7mm Rem I hunted our Central Texas deer with for a season was a bit much. Later, on West Texas leases when the deer were much heavier amd distances longer, it would have been useful.
I couldn’t afford either in 1966 but I remember handling a 700 BDL and a 1966 Model 70 at Oshman’s and wondering what New Haven had been smoking. The 700 BDL was a whole lot of gun for the money. I just didnt quite have it at the time.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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