Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1953 Winchester model 70
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2113
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
41
May 8, 2024 - 2:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Louis Luttrell said
Hi Zeb-

I’ve no doubt that Winchester’s R&D program did not operate in a vacuum, and a little “friendly” industrial espionage was the order of the day. I quick tour through MS20 (the WRACo document collection) in the McCracken Library digital archives shows that Winchester had a lot of blueprints and other technical documents on other manufacturers’ products.  Why acquire that information unless they wanted to know what the competition was doing?  Confused

The 256 Newton (almost a 6.5mm-06) had been around since 1913 and Winchester didn’t finalize the 270 WCF (.277″-06) until late 1918.  Apparently they also played with a 280 design (.284″-06) but dropped it in favor of the .277″ (true 7mm-06).  I do like the story that the reason they settled on .277″ was that it was the bullet diameter with which they could get 3000 fps out of a 30-06 case with a 130 gr bullet, thereby deflating the 250-3000 Savage’s advertising claim…  “Friendly” competition?  Hardly… Wink

Here’s an anecdotal observation from the M70 survey…  Everyone knows that over the entire pre-64 M70 production span (1936-1963) the 270 WCF was second in popularity only to the 30-06.  Roughly 36% for the 30-06 and 21% for the 270 WCF, while the 257 ROBERTS represented a mere 2.5% of sales.  But what was the relative popularity of these cartridges in the pre-war period (1936-1942)?  

The survey presently encompasses a little over 5% of pre-war M70 serial numbers.  There were originally (9) chamberings offered.  Representation in the survey to date is: 30-06 (45%); 22 Hornet (12%); 220 Swift (8.0%); 300 H&H Magnum (6.9%); 270 WCF (6.7%); 257 Roberts (6.3%); 375 H&H Magnum (6.1%); 7×57 (4.8%); and, 250-3000 Savage (3.8%).  While I understand that an observational survey like this will tend to overrepresent the less common calibers, it seems apparent to me that the 270 WCF wasn’t all that big a marketing hit at the time.  Who knew that in the pre-war guns 270 WCF was a “rare” chambering??? Wink I wonder if the M54 survey has big enough numbers to compare the relative popularity of the 30-06 and 270 WCF at the time it was introduced?

So what happened to make the 270 WCF a “great” cartridge?  I’d call it the post-war “The Jack O’Connor Effect”… LaughLaughLaugh

Best,

Lou

Absolutely!  If it wasn’t for Jack O’Connor, the .270 WCF would have remained as popular as it was during pre war production and that would have largely resulted in .30-06 production dominating even more.

What would be interesting is to note when exactly Jack O’Connor began to promote the .270 WCF and when also his writing was available to the masses and note if this correlates to a marked increase in production and sales of the Model .270 WCF.

Avatar
Location: 32000' +
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 2479
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
42
May 8, 2024 - 3:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I am a “young man” and late to the party but was a Jack O’Connor fan in the 70’s and his articles and books describing the .270 and it’s suitability for African game are the EXACT reason my first pre-64 Model 70 was a .270 WCF (which of course I have taken to Africa in his footsteps).  I am also a fan of the 7×57 Mauser cartridge which is what his wife used.

Best Regards,

JWA-Zimbabwe-Africa-Duiker.jpgImage EnlargerJWA-Zimbabwe-Africa-Warthog.jpgImage EnlargerJWA-Triangle-Africa-Impala.jpgImage EnlargerJWA-Triangle-Africa-Wart-Hog.jpgImage EnlargerJWA-Africa-Greater-Kudu-2.jpgImage Enlarger

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 663
Member Since:
August 27, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
43
May 8, 2024 - 3:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Always had a thing for 270’s

If you can’t convince them, confuse them

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
44
May 8, 2024 - 4:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

So what happened to make the 270 WCF a “great” cartridge?  I’d call it the post-war “The Jack O’Connor Effect”… LaughLouis Luttrell said   

Don’t think it could be anything else!  His popularity & prestige as a hunter & gunwriter was unmatched, no, not even by perennial rival Elmer, whose writing I believe even his fans took with a grain of salt, whereas Jack’s work radiated the quality of “believe-ability,” telling it like it really was. 

Avatar
Location: 32000' +
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 2479
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
45
May 8, 2024 - 7:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

He certainly had an air of believability and of the common man.  True to his word I have taken everything in Africa up to, and including, Greater Kudu.  Of course I am not stupid enough to stand in front of a Cape Buffalo with my .270 but I don’t think that is what he meant.  Anything larger than a GK (such as an Eland) and I moved up to the .375 H&H, another personal favorite of mine.

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: Bert H., Anthony
Guest(s) 64
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6113
Chuck: 5566
steve004: 4997
1873man: 4643
Big Larry: 2500
twobit: 2470
mrcvs: 2113
Maverick: 1904
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14356
Posts: 127586

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2012
Members: 9742
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation