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1937 Winchester Transitional Carbine Question
June 26, 2021
5:42 pm
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Jimbo
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   Should the barrel say Proof Steel Model 94 on a rifle that the serial number (1122xxx) refers to as a 1937 transitional carbine ? Thanks 

June 26, 2021
6:01 pm
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Jimbo said
   Should the barrel say Proof Steel Model 94 on a rifle that the serial number (1122xxx) refers to as a 1937 transitional carbine ? Thanks   

Yes it should.  Winchester made teh switch from the older Nickel Steel to the new Proof Steel in April/May 1932.  What is the complete S/N and the caliber of your Model 94.  Does it have the old style carbine butt plate, or a serrated steel shotgun butt plate?

Bert

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June 26, 2021
6:06 pm
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Jimbo
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 Thanks for the reply Bert, I watch a lot of your post/replies and you are a world of knowledge on Winchesters ! The serial number is 1122550 and has the old style carbine butt plate. It also has the ramp front sight but no hood. Is that correct or should it have the hood ? Thanks !

June 26, 2021
6:51 pm
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You are welcome.

The S/N identifies it as an early March 1937 production “transitional” Carbine.  It should have a Type-6 upper tang marking, and a front sight hood.  I will assume that it is a 30 WCF ?

Bert

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June 26, 2021
9:13 pm
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Jimbo
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Yes sir, it is a .30 WCF caliber. I bought this rifle from a friend but I’m not in possession of it just yet so what marking am I looking for on the upper tang, just the words “type-6” ? I also read somewhere that some WWll carbines could possibly have special U.S. markings ? Is that true and if so what markings are they talking about ? Thanks !

June 26, 2021
9:25 pm
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The attached picture below is a Type-e upper tang marking. 

There were 1,800 U.S. marked Model 1894 Carbines purchased by the U.S. Army for WW I.  There were no U.S “military” contracts for WW II.  Any U.S. markings found on a 1930s production Model 94 are highly suspect for being Fakes.

Bert

Type-6-1138328.jpgImage Enlarger

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June 26, 2021
9:48 pm
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Jimbo
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   Thanks again Bert, the upper tang is just like your picture. So far other than the missing front hood everything else looks to be original. I bought it to hang on to for my grandson one day to shoot. The bluing on the reciever is all but gone but the barrel is still in pretty good shape as far as bluing. It would be nice to know the stories behind these old rifles and what they’ve been through back in their prime ! At least I’ll be able to explain some of the possible history behind this ole lever action to my grandson when he gets a little older. 

June 27, 2021
12:39 am
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In reply to your question regarding the front sight hood.  The first production ramp front sighted carbines were not machined (cut) for the sight cover.  I am not sure of the exact serial number range of these carbines.  RDB

June 27, 2021
12:58 am
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rogertherelic said
In reply to your question regarding the front sight hood.  The first production ramp front sighted carbines were not machined (cut) for the sight cover.  I am not sure of the exact serial number range of these carbines.  RDB  

The earliest Carbines manufactured with a ramp front sight were in the 1082500 serial range (early April 1932) and they were not milled for a hood.  The earliest S/N I have found thus far is 1082562 (April 1932), and the latest is S/N 1090419 (June 1933).

Below are pictures of several;

Winchester_Model_94_1082935_001.jpgImage EnlargerWinchester_Model_94_1082935_011.jpgImage Enlargerpix655231513.jpgImage EnlargerRamp-sight-no-groove-1086500.jpgImage EnlargerRamp-sight-no-groove-1086500-1.jpgImage Enlarger

Bert

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July 3, 2021
2:13 pm
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Jimbo
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   Sorry to be so late on this question Bert but what is the correct size hood (length and height) for my Winchester model 94 serial number 1122550 carbine ? Appreciate you as always !

July 3, 2021
3:40 pm
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I do not have that information available in any of my references.

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July 3, 2021
7:26 pm
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Jimbo
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Thanks Bert, I’ll be honest with you, I never dreamed I could ask you a question about Winchester 94’s that you couldn’t answer ! 

July 3, 2021
8:13 pm
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Jimbo said
Thanks Bert, I’ll be honest with you, I never dreamed I could ask you a question about Winchester 94’s that you couldn’t answer !   

S**t happens…Frown  That stated, I have seen a listing somewhere of the different hood sizes for the various Winchester Models, but I can’t remember exactly where.  Sooner or later I will stumble on it again, and then commit it to memory.  Right now I am rather busy getting ready for my week long trip to Cody for the WACA show.

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July 3, 2021
8:52 pm
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Bert H. said

  Sooner or later I will stumble on it again, and then commit it to memory.  Right now I am rather busy getting ready for my week long trip to Cody for the WACA show.  

Hi Bert,

No need to search for it, I was the one that compiled the complete hood/model spreadsheet when SEEWIN and I were working on sorting out the Model 75 and 52 hoods last September.  I have since updated the one I previously sent you last fall and will forward the revised spreadsheet to you.

My notes indicate the first catalog to show the 94 Carbine #3276 Sight Cover “Style A” (part # 16794A) was 1934 so that matches your data.

Best Regards,

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July 3, 2021
10:13 pm
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Jeff,

Thanks once again !!  I will file it away someplace where I can readily find it again.

See you in Cody,

Bert

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July 4, 2021
6:54 am
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Hi Jimbo, Bert & All!  

For info…  My Model 94, SN 1129740 matches your Carbine “description” but for SN of course,  a “King” full buckhorn aft sight which I’ve retained ‘aboard’. Sort of ‘worn into’ it! “Personalized character!”  Such and the errant sight hood likely discarded decades ago. I’d restore the feature if I had one, but other than ‘hood’ as utility sight protector & anti-snag device, my belief they weren’t particularly popular!  Few pix of my Carbine, King sight & slotted front ramp, below. 

Jimbo, my personal observation, this model is the absolute ‘sweet spot’ of this entire decades wide model production!  Combo of milled-integral ramp front sight as well as classic carbine ‘wrap-over’ butt plate… “Classy Classic Carbine!” 🙂  

I’m not much into saddle rings, but were these Transition models factory furnished with or without?  Also Bert, seems to me my carbine here was 1938 production. Correct? 

Congrats Jimbo on acquiring a very nice Model 94 sub-species!  

JWin-94-Transitional.jpgImage EnlargerWin-94-Transitional-1.jpgImage EnlargerWin-Model-94-King-Full-Buckhorn.jpgImage EnlargerWin-94-Integral-Forged-Front-Sight.jpgImage EnlargerWn-94-Carbine-Butt-Plate.jpgImage EnlargerJust my take and…

Best!

John

July 4, 2021
4:30 pm
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John,

The “Transitional” Carbines were purposefully manufactured without a saddle ring.  Your Transitional Carbine was manufactured June 1st, 1937, and it has teh distinction of being the last (highest S/N) Transitional Carbine in my research survey.  In the 1120000 – 1129999 range, Winchester began & completed the change to the serrated steel shotgun butt plate.

Bert

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July 4, 2021
7:19 pm
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Wow Bert!  Thanks for the great information!  Some minutes after posting; almost amending to say I understood you were in ‘pre-departure’ mode and no worry about ‘timely reply’.  Also, a notation concerning ‘bit green’ envy!  You’re getting to the WACA Show!  I, and likely many Membership & others, surely to be with you in spirit! 

Also looking forward to any resulting report you as a WACA ‘central person’, or some such others experts attending, care to provide. (Vicarious thrill takers awaiting!)  Particularly curious concerning pricing trends.  Hearing a lot about wild prices, heavy-duty Internet sellers continuing to push the imagination!  Would be good to see how the ‘sophisticated collector’ market is reacting. Such particularly in context of comparing “Show” – ostensibly “cream of the crop”, to “Internet” frequently – “cream of crap!”  🙂 

I’ve just annotated my XL notes concerning your kind 1 Jun 37 info & my ‘moment in the Sun’ as ‘high SN pending…  🙂  As stated, her own 94 sub-genre, my personal ‘pick of litter’!  (Again “Congrats” to Jimbo!) 

Thanks again Burt!  Wishing you safe journey, good show & “Covid Proofed” safety!  I & mine “Proofed”.  

John

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