Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1937 Winchester Transitional Carbine Question
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Jimbo
Guest
WACA Guest
1
June 26, 2021 - 5:42 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

   Should the barrel say Proof Steel Model 94 on a rifle that the serial number (1122xxx) refers to as a 1937 transitional carbine ? Thanks 

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
2
June 26, 2021 - 6:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jimbo said
   Should the barrel say Proof Steel Model 94 on a rifle that the serial number (1122xxx) refers to as a 1937 transitional carbine ? Thanks   

Yes it should.  Winchester made teh switch from the older Nickel Steel to the new Proof Steel in April/May 1932.  What is the complete S/N and the caliber of your Model 94.  Does it have the old style carbine butt plate, or a serrated steel shotgun butt plate?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Jimbo
Guest
WACA Guest
3
June 26, 2021 - 6:06 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

 Thanks for the reply Bert, I watch a lot of your post/replies and you are a world of knowledge on Winchesters ! The serial number is 1122550 and has the old style carbine butt plate. It also has the ramp front sight but no hood. Is that correct or should it have the hood ? Thanks !

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
4
June 26, 2021 - 6:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

You are welcome.

The S/N identifies it as an early March 1937 production “transitional” Carbine.  It should have a Type-6 upper tang marking, and a front sight hood.  I will assume that it is a 30 WCF ?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Jimbo
Guest
WACA Guest
5
June 26, 2021 - 9:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Yes sir, it is a .30 WCF caliber. I bought this rifle from a friend but I’m not in possession of it just yet so what marking am I looking for on the upper tang, just the words “type-6” ? I also read somewhere that some WWll carbines could possibly have special U.S. markings ? Is that true and if so what markings are they talking about ? Thanks !

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
6
June 26, 2021 - 9:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The attached picture below is a Type-e upper tang marking. 

There were 1,800 U.S. marked Model 1894 Carbines purchased by the U.S. Army for WW I.  There were no U.S “military” contracts for WW II.  Any U.S. markings found on a 1930s production Model 94 are highly suspect for being Fakes.

Bert

Type-6-1138328.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Jimbo
Guest
WACA Guest
7
June 26, 2021 - 9:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

   Thanks again Bert, the upper tang is just like your picture. So far other than the missing front hood everything else looks to be original. I bought it to hang on to for my grandson one day to shoot. The bluing on the reciever is all but gone but the barrel is still in pretty good shape as far as bluing. It would be nice to know the stories behind these old rifles and what they’ve been through back in their prime ! At least I’ll be able to explain some of the possible history behind this ole lever action to my grandson when he gets a little older. 

Avatar
Santa Clara, CA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 788
Member Since:
January 27, 1992
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
June 27, 2021 - 12:39 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

In reply to your question regarding the front sight hood.  The first production ramp front sighted carbines were not machined (cut) for the sight cover.  I am not sure of the exact serial number range of these carbines.  RDB

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
9
June 27, 2021 - 12:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

rogertherelic said
In reply to your question regarding the front sight hood.  The first production ramp front sighted carbines were not machined (cut) for the sight cover.  I am not sure of the exact serial number range of these carbines.  RDB  

The earliest Carbines manufactured with a ramp front sight were in the 1082500 serial range (early April 1932) and they were not milled for a hood.  The earliest S/N I have found thus far is 1082562 (April 1932), and the latest is S/N 1090419 (June 1933).

Below are pictures of several;

Winchester_Model_94_1082935_001.jpgImage EnlargerWinchester_Model_94_1082935_011.jpgImage Enlargerpix655231513.jpgImage EnlargerRamp-sight-no-groove-1086500.jpgImage EnlargerRamp-sight-no-groove-1086500-1.jpgImage Enlarger

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Jimbo
Guest
WACA Guest
10
July 3, 2021 - 2:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

   Sorry to be so late on this question Bert but what is the correct size hood (length and height) for my Winchester model 94 serial number 1122550 carbine ? Appreciate you as always !

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
11
July 3, 2021 - 3:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I do not have that information available in any of my references.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Jimbo
Guest
WACA Guest
12
July 3, 2021 - 7:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks Bert, I’ll be honest with you, I never dreamed I could ask you a question about Winchester 94’s that you couldn’t answer ! 

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
13
July 3, 2021 - 8:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jimbo said
Thanks Bert, I’ll be honest with you, I never dreamed I could ask you a question about Winchester 94’s that you couldn’t answer !   

S**t happens…Frown  That stated, I have seen a listing somewhere of the different hood sizes for the various Winchester Models, but I can’t remember exactly where.  Sooner or later I will stumble on it again, and then commit it to memory.  Right now I am rather busy getting ready for my week long trip to Cody for the WACA show.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Location: 32000' +
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 2089
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
July 3, 2021 - 8:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

  Sooner or later I will stumble on it again, and then commit it to memory.  Right now I am rather busy getting ready for my week long trip to Cody for the WACA show.  

Hi Bert,

No need to search for it, I was the one that compiled the complete hood/model spreadsheet when SEEWIN and I were working on sorting out the Model 75 and 52 hoods last September.  I have since updated the one I previously sent you last fall and will forward the revised spreadsheet to you.

My notes indicate the first catalog to show the 94 Carbine #3276 Sight Cover “Style A” (part # 16794A) was 1934 so that matches your data.

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
15
July 3, 2021 - 10:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jeff,

Thanks once again !!  I will file it away someplace where I can readily find it again.

See you in Cody,

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 347
Member Since:
February 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
July 4, 2021 - 6:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hi Jimbo, Bert & All!  

For info…  My Model 94, SN 1129740 matches your Carbine “description” but for SN of course,  a “King” full buckhorn aft sight which I’ve retained ‘aboard’. Sort of ‘worn into’ it! “Personalized character!”  Such and the errant sight hood likely discarded decades ago. I’d restore the feature if I had one, but other than ‘hood’ as utility sight protector & anti-snag device, my belief they weren’t particularly popular!  Few pix of my Carbine, King sight & slotted front ramp, below. 

Jimbo, my personal observation, this model is the absolute ‘sweet spot’ of this entire decades wide model production!  Combo of milled-integral ramp front sight as well as classic carbine ‘wrap-over’ butt plate… “Classy Classic Carbine!” 🙂  

I’m not much into saddle rings, but were these Transition models factory furnished with or without?  Also Bert, seems to me my carbine here was 1938 production. Correct? 

Congrats Jimbo on acquiring a very nice Model 94 sub-species!  

JWin-94-Transitional.jpgImage EnlargerWin-94-Transitional-1.jpgImage EnlargerWin-Model-94-King-Full-Buckhorn.jpgImage EnlargerWin-94-Integral-Forged-Front-Sight.jpgImage EnlargerWn-94-Carbine-Butt-Plate.jpgImage EnlargerJust my take and…

Best!

John

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10640
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
17
July 4, 2021 - 4:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

John,

The “Transitional” Carbines were purposefully manufactured without a saddle ring.  Your Transitional Carbine was manufactured June 1st, 1937, and it has teh distinction of being the last (highest S/N) Transitional Carbine in my research survey.  In the 1120000 – 1129999 range, Winchester began & completed the change to the serrated steel shotgun butt plate.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 347
Member Since:
February 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
July 4, 2021 - 7:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Wow Bert!  Thanks for the great information!  Some minutes after posting; almost amending to say I understood you were in ‘pre-departure’ mode and no worry about ‘timely reply’.  Also, a notation concerning ‘bit green’ envy!  You’re getting to the WACA Show!  I, and likely many Membership & others, surely to be with you in spirit! 

Also looking forward to any resulting report you as a WACA ‘central person’, or some such others experts attending, care to provide. (Vicarious thrill takers awaiting!)  Particularly curious concerning pricing trends.  Hearing a lot about wild prices, heavy-duty Internet sellers continuing to push the imagination!  Would be good to see how the ‘sophisticated collector’ market is reacting. Such particularly in context of comparing “Show” – ostensibly “cream of the crop”, to “Internet” frequently – “cream of crap!”  🙂 

I’ve just annotated my XL notes concerning your kind 1 Jun 37 info & my ‘moment in the Sun’ as ‘high SN pending…  🙂  As stated, her own 94 sub-genre, my personal ‘pick of litter’!  (Again “Congrats” to Jimbo!) 

Thanks again Burt!  Wishing you safe journey, good show & “Covid Proofed” safety!  I & mine “Proofed”.  

John

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6168
TXGunNut: 4889
Chuck: 4528
1873man: 4269
steve004: 4108
Big Larry: 2297
twobit: 2284
TR: 1698
mrcvs: 1672
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12526
Posts: 108816

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1731
Members: 8737
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation