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1924 Winchester model 94 carbine with crescent buttplate
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Posts: 4
February 10, 2022 - 2:33 pm

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I just joined WACA and this is my first post. I just purchased my first vintage Winchester. A model 94 30wcf made in 1924 I believe. The serial number is in the 960,000 range. It is unusual that it is a carbine but has a crescent buttplate. The fit and finish look good. I am trying to find out if this is original to the rifle or would have been replaced. It also has a king front sight installed and I would like to know the vintage of the sight, if possible. Any information you could provide would be great. Also, what do you think the rifle is worth.

Thanks!

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Taos NM
Posts: 224
February 10, 2022 - 3:01 pm
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Post the SN, maybe someone will do a SN check for you with Cody..Bill

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Wyoming - Gods Country
Posts: 1267
February 10, 2022 - 4:06 pm

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Much too late for a records search. It’s very possible that its original, based on the fit of the stock to the frame. With no saddle ring and a rifle rear sight that also lends to the package. There are others out there in that same configuration. One of the gurus will have to see all the barrel markings to see if the periods line up with the frame DOM. 

                                                                               ~Gary~

                                                                                                                                                                              94-SRR.jpg

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NY
Posts: 6150
February 10, 2022 - 4:19 pm

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A carbine that lacks the most characteristic carbine features: buttplate, rear sight, & sling ring.  Curious, but to me looks like a legit custom order by someone with very particular ideas about what he wanted.  He displayed good sense in ditching the useless ring, but I think the best thing about carbines is their user-friendly buttplates.  I especially like the gently & carefully used cond. of this “crossbreed” gun.

No reason not to think the King sight was put there by the original owner.

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Posts: 183
February 10, 2022 - 4:24 pm

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Gun looks right. Serial range puts it in 1923-4. No idea on value. It does seem well cared for.

B

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Posts: 1375
February 10, 2022 - 4:45 pm

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Welcome Mason,

Nice special order carbine in really nice condition. 

Al

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Posts: 4514
February 10, 2022 - 6:16 pm

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I actually like this set up better than the standard carbine.

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10607
February 11, 2022 - 5:02 am

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June/July 1923.  Please post (or send me) the complete serial number so that I can full document it in my research survey.

It appears to be a “special” order Eastern Carbine.  The King front blade was most likely installed after it left the factory.

Bert – [email protected]

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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Posts: 4
February 11, 2022 - 11:35 am

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Thanks for the information everyone. I really appreciate it. Bert, I just emailed that to you.

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 786
February 11, 2022 - 3:23 pm

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I have a similar configured carbine.  Serial number 854021.  Bert, in a previous post, said that they seemed to produce these carbines in batches.

This example was almost pristine when I acquired it back in the late 1980’s.  The receiver has since flaked substantially, which seems to be common of this time period.  To facilitate the longer rifle style rear sight, repositioning of the rear sight dove tail was required.  This makes it easy to determine “Factory Work”.  Hope this helps.  RDB

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Posts: 1656
February 11, 2022 - 3:33 pm

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rogertherelic said
This example was almost pristine when I acquired it back in the late 1980’s.  The receiver has since flaked substantially, which seems to be common of this time period. 

And so is this flaking a consequence of time & aging or a consequence of wear/use or even abuse?

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 786
February 11, 2022 - 5:54 pm

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I am of the understanding that the receiver steel alloy was changed about 1915 and has a higher nickle content than previously used.  This allowed a beautiful finish in the beginning, but as time passed the flaking started. This bluing process continued through the 1920’s and can be found in all models.  Especially Model 53, 55, 92, 94 and 86.  The bluing process was changed again in the 1930’s and the flaking ceases.  RDB

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Posts: 1656
February 11, 2022 - 6:16 pm

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So it sounds like it’s a function of the passage of time and impossible to curtail vs a function of handling, which could be minimized?

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 786
February 11, 2022 - 8:25 pm

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I wish there was a was to stop the flaking problem.  When I bought my 94 the bluing would have been classed an easy 95% condition.  The receiver now may make 50 to 60%.  At least the wood still shows almost no use other than a few tiny little marks.  This is one of the few Winchesters I only fired once at the range, just because I thought it “too nice” to play with.  I have other 30 W.C.F. Winchesters that rate “shootable”, with out being harmed.  RDB 

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Troutdale, OR
Posts: 1843
February 12, 2022 - 4:13 pm

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I have one of these carbines as well, but the receiver blue was already flaked gone when I acquired mine.  One other point worth mentioning is Winchester moved the barrel address forward of the rear barrel band to facilitate placement of the rear rifle type sight.  Mine came with a full California buckhorn rear sight. An example is also shown in Robert Renneberg’s 1894 book.

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Don

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10607
February 12, 2022 - 7:35 pm

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Mason Cline said
Thanks for the information everyone. I really appreciate it. Bert, I just emailed that to you.  

I just ran a sort to compile the statistical numbers in my research survey, and I discovered that I have thus far documented (49) Eastern Carbines with the Rifle butt stock and butt plate.  Interestingly, a large number of them were manufactured in the 830000 – 970000 serial number range.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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Posts: 4
February 12, 2022 - 7:46 pm

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deerhunter said
I have one of these carbines as well, but the receiver blue was already flaked gone when I acquired mine.  One other point worth mentioning is Winchester moved the barrel address forward of the rear barrel band to facilitate placement of the rear rifle type sight.  Mine came with a full California buckhorn rear sight. An example is also shown in Robert Renneberg’s 1894 book.

P1070184.JPGImage EnlargerP1070186.JPGImage EnlargerP1070189.JPGImage EnlargerP1070190.JPGImage EnlargerP1070220.JPGImage EnlargerP1070212.JPGImage EnlargerP1070198.JPGImage EnlargerP1070226.JPGImage Enlarger

Don  

Very interesting. Is the last photo from the book from Robert Renneberg’s 1894 book? 

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Troutdale, OR
Posts: 1843
February 13, 2022 - 3:04 am

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Mason Cline said

Very interesting. Is the last photo from the book from Robert Renneberg’s 1894 book?   

Yes–on page 95 (2nd edition)

Don

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