Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
I didn’t want to hijack the other thread on markings. An elderly gentleman brought me a model ’95 and the caliber markings are “30 US mod. 1903”. He says it is a 30-03 and has shot 30-06 through it. Is it a rebarreled 30-40 then? Inquiring minds want to know. 🙂
Sounds like a straight rifle to me. The .30-03 was the predecessor to the .30-06. If I recall, the case of the .30-03 is slightly longer (the neck I recall is a bit longer). This means the .30-06 case can be fired in the .30-03 but the .30-03 case cannot be fired in the .30-06. I owned a .30-03 for many years and it came along for several range trips. I used .30-06 cases but I load my own. I was not using near maximum loads. If it were me, I would not attempt factory .30-06 ammo in a ’95 .30-03. I am a fan of caution. Plus, lighter loads are more pleasant to shoot – so I can’t see any downside. Another point – having the head space checked on ’95 .30-03 and .30-06 seems a wise idea. Another member here mentioned most ’95’s chambered in .30-06 that he checked with a no-go gauge – the bolt closed on the gauge.
Thanks Steve. The gentleman is 90 and has had an interesting life. I would also be reluctant to shoot modern 30-06 through it. So I am taking it that the markings are correct for 30-03.
Jim Rogers said
Thanks Steve. The gentleman is 90 and has had an interesting life. I would also be reluctant to shoot modern 30-06 through it. So I am taking it that the markings are correct for 30-03.
Yes, those are correct markings for the .30-03.
Jim,
As long as you shoot standard pressure 30-06 loads, it is perfectly safe in a 30-03 chamber if the head spacing is not out of whack. The reason the 30-03 case neck was a bit longer than a 30-06 was because the 30-03 was loaded with the same 220-grain round nosed bullet as the 30 U.S. (30/40).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Here’s a couple I have; 30 govt 03 is a s.r.c.,ser#87756, 30 govt 06 is a 24″ takedown rifle ser#417988
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Time for me to learn something. If a 95 in ’06 has excess head space is there some way to fix it? I’m on the hunt for a ’06 and am looking at some guns that I won’t be able to check the headspace on as they aren’t local to me..
Thanks Steve. Identical to the one I have here.
Thanks for the info Bert re: shooting modern 30-06.
Happy New Year everyone!!
Brooksy said
Time for me to learn something. If a 95 in ’06 has excess head space is there some way to fix it?
Maybe. If it is way out of spec only a gunsmith can fix it. If just a few thousandths you can adjust the base to shoulder measurement by not pushing the shoulder back any farther than necessary when you full length size the brass.
If you don’t know how to reload and especially how to bump a case I would not shoot the gun until it is fixed by a professional.
Brooksy said
I’m on the hunt for a ’06 and am looking at some guns that I won’t be able to check the headspace on as they aren’t local to me..
If someone makes you a terrific deal on a .30-06 having this problem, it might be worth while trying to solve it, but otherwise, why ask for trouble by looking for one? .30-40s are easier to find, rarely have the same problem, & are more pleasant to shoot anyway.
Now, to contradict which I just said, I’d love to have a .30-03, just for the rarity of that chambering! And I’d know how to deal with any potential headspace problem.
I agree that dealing with a mild headspace problem (on a rimless case) can often be dealt with adequately if you load your own cartridges and use the brass fired from that rifle. You do have to fire a round first to get a piece of brass you can resize (which means you would resize the case less than you normally would).
However, let’s talk about how a gunsmith can actually, “fix” this problem. I suspect back in the day, a return and repair to Winchester would have result in putting a new barrel on. But in modern times, what would a gunsmith do? Based on my rudimentary knowledge, the problem is that with in the instance of the .30-06, the cartridge headspaces on the shoulder. When a headspace problem develops, that likely means the cartridge is moving too far forward (which is why primers often partially back out when the cartridge is fired). To fix this, the end of the barrel needs to be shaved off (usually one full turn of the barrel) and then the chamber is recut. This fix does have implications for the forend fitting back on and that needs to be addressed as well. That’s my take anyway. I am very happy to be corrected if I am in error as that would take me beyond my present level of understanding.
steve004 said
To fix this, the end of the barrel needs to be shaved off (usually one full turn of the barrel) and then the chamber is recut. This fix does have implications for the forend fitting back on and that needs to be addressed as well. That’s my take anyway. I am very happy to be corrected if I am in error as that would take me beyond my present level of understanding.
Yes, that’s what would have to be done, which is far more trouble & cost than it’s worth, unless headspace is SO excessive that case heads are separating on first firing. If the gun has seen that much use, it might be time to retire it, & find one in better cond.
OK, this is all very interesting and informative. So, what do you fellows do when you buy a gun on line or at an auction and can’t check the headspace? Is bad headspace that common on 30-06 M95s? I’m looking at guns with very good bores and in general good condition, not anything in poor shape inside and out. I have shot mostly rimmed cartridges my entire life and havent had a problem like this. Why a 30-06 you may ask? I have about a bazillion rounds of 30-06 my Grandpa gave me back in the early 80’s, I also have dies and several hundred pieces of hornady brass that has never been used….sort of buying a gun because I have the ammo for it. Some what backwards I guess.
I’m getting sort of freaked out about this. But I have bought many dozens of old guns and haven’t run up against bad headspace yet….what are the odds?
Brooksy said
OK, this is all very interesting and informative. So, what do you fellows do when you buy a gun on line or at an auction and can’t check the headspace? Is bad headspace that common on 30-06 M95s? I’m looking at guns with very good bores and in general good condition, not anything in poor shape inside and out. I have shot mostly rimmed cartridges my entire life and havent had a problem like this. Why a 30-06 you may ask? I have about a bazillion rounds of 30-06 my Grandpa gave me back in the early 80’s, I also have dies and several hundred pieces of hornady brass that has never been used….sort of buying a gun because I have the ammo for it. Some what backwards I guess.I’m getting sort of freaked out about this. But I have bought many dozens of old guns and haven’t run up against bad headspace yet….what are the odds?
If you are buying at a live auction, I suppose during the preview period you could bring a no-go gauge along and see if the bolt closes on it. I’d be sure and get permission first – someone might think you are loading the rifle with a live cartridge. You do mention you have reloading dies and hundreds of pieces of brass, so you are set up to deal with this if you do end up with something lone on headspace. That doesn’t help you shoot up all those rounds your Grandpa gave you. Have you considered a Winchester M54 or M70 in .30-06? I suppose like me, you really enjoy lever rifles. I think the reality is that when dealing with 100+ year old used rifles, there is no guarantee when it comes to mechanical function and you take your chances.
Brooksy said
OK, this is all very interesting and informative. So, what do you fellows do when you buy a gun on line or at an auction and can’t check the headspace? Is bad headspace that common on 30-06 M95s? I’m looking at guns with very good bores and in general good condition, not anything in poor shape inside and out. I have shot mostly rimmed cartridges my entire life and havent had a problem like this. Why a 30-06 you may ask? I have about a bazillion rounds of 30-06 my Grandpa gave me back in the early 80’s, I also have dies and several hundred pieces of hornady brass that has never been used….sort of buying a gun because I have the ammo for it. Some what backwards I guess.I’m getting sort of freaked out about this. But I have bought many dozens of old guns and haven’t run up against bad headspace yet….what are the odds?
The best way to avoid issues is to NOT buy guns that you haven’t inspected BEFORE purchase.
The 30-06 is a desirable cartridge in the 95’s due to the easy access to ammo. Because of this these tend to get shot a lot. I have no idea how many end up having problems? Any gun that gets heavy loads for a diet can and do develop problems.
Chuck said
Brooksy said
OK, this is all very interesting and informative. So, what do you fellows do when you buy a gun on line or at an auction and can’t check the headspace? Is bad headspace that common on 30-06 M95s? I’m looking at guns with very good bores and in general good condition, not anything in poor shape inside and out. I have shot mostly rimmed cartridges my entire life and havent had a problem like this. Why a 30-06 you may ask? I have about a bazillion rounds of 30-06 my Grandpa gave me back in the early 80’s, I also have dies and several hundred pieces of hornady brass that has never been used….sort of buying a gun because I have the ammo for it. Some what backwards I guess.I’m getting sort of freaked out about this. But I have bought many dozens of old guns and haven’t run up against bad headspace yet….what are the odds?
The best way to avoid issues is to NOT buy guns that you haven’t inspected BEFORE purchase.
The 30-06 is a desirable cartridge in the 95’s due to the easy access to ammo. Because of this these tend to get shot a lot. I have no idea how many end up having problems? Any gun that gets heavy loads for a diet can and do develop problems.
Good point. When was the last time .38-72, .40-72 or .35 WCF were readily available?
It seems I ended up hijacking somebody’s thread, I’ll get a no go gauge and clear it with auction officials. Do I need a no go gauge or a field gauge? Or both?
Hate to be a pain but this sort of thing is not my area of experice, and I appreciate all of your help. I made a living since ’96 as a custom gunstocker, you’d think I would know about this stuff. Never too late to learn.
Chuck said The 30-06 is a desirable cartridge in the 95’s due to the easy access to ammo. Because of this these tend to get shot a lot.
Maybe, but target shooting with a crescent-butt ’95 in that caliber is not my idea of fun! If the action had really been designed to handle .30-06 pressure, shooting it “a lot” wouldn’t cause this problem. But when it was on the drawing board, the .30-06 hadn’t yet been conceived, & by the time it was, Browning had parted ways with Winchester.
clarence said
Chuck said The 30-06 is a desirable cartridge in the 95’s due to the easy access to ammo. Because of this these tend to get shot a lot.
Maybe, but target shooting with a crescent-butt ’95 in that caliber is not my idea of fun! If the action had really been designed to handle .30-06 pressure, shooting it “a lot” wouldn’t cause this problem. But when it was on the drawing board, the .30-06 hadn’t yet been conceived, & by the time it was, Browning had parted ways with Winchester.
Clarence I can’t disagree. Shooting the 95 in any caliber is not fun after a few shots even with a shotgun butt. These guns do not handle recoil well at all.
1 Guest(s)
