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1894 Replaced Barrel
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December 29, 2022 - 5:18 pm
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I have a 1894 td rifle in 38-55 serial 237285 that has an obviously replaced barrel, the caliber and barrel address are to the side of the barrel instead of on top.  The barrel has the circled P and the WP mark ahead of the receiver and the receiver has the WP proof.  What say the group, was this replacement done by Winchester?

 

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December 29, 2022 - 5:25 pm
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mark minnillo said
I have a 1894 td rifle in 38-55 serial 237285 that has an obviously replaced barrel, the caliber and barrel address are to the side of the barrel instead of on top.  The barrel has the circled P and the WP mark ahead of the receiver and the receiver has the WP proof.  What say the group, was this replacement done by Winchester?

  

Check the bottom of the brl for the “mail-order” marks that would indicate a non-factory replacement.  They are “OF” (for outside-fitted) or (after 1913) a “P” within a circle.  If you don’t find either of those, it may be a factory replacement.

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December 29, 2022 - 5:33 pm
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The circled P indicates it was a mail order barrel, so likely replaced by an outside factory gunsmith.

Don

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December 29, 2022 - 5:36 pm
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deerhunter said
The circled P indicates it was a mail order barrel, so likely replaced by an outside factory gunsmith.

Don

  

I understand that the circled P indicates mail order or replacement but what about the fact that the barrel and receiver (which would not have been WP marked originally) are both stamped with the WP mark??

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December 29, 2022 - 5:38 pm
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deerhunter said
The circled P indicates it was a mail order barrel, so likely replaced by an outside factory gunsmith.

Don

  

Neither one of those marks on the top of the brl look original to me.  (And what’s the “X”?)   I thought the circled P was marked on the underside, like the “OF” mark.

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December 29, 2022 - 5:52 pm
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clarence said

deerhunter said

The circled P indicates it was a mail order barrel, so likely replaced by an outside factory gunsmith.

Don

  

Neither one of those marks on the top of the brl look original to me.  (And what’s the “X”?)   I thought the circled P was marked on the underside, like the “OF” mark.

  

I have seen other barrels with the circled P on top of the barrel but not with the WP mark

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December 29, 2022 - 6:51 pm
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Marks do look a little strange to me too.  Either way this was most likely not done by Winchester.

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December 29, 2022 - 7:13 pm
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Chuck said
Marks do look a little strange to me too.  Either way this was most likely not done by Winchester.

  

Applying faked markings merely draws attention to the brl replacement, which might have gone unnoticed by someone unaware of the change to off-side markings.  Suspect it’s not a mail-order, but merely a brl removed from another ’94.  So why go to the trouble to add crudely faked markings?  Because there’s no accounting for the stupidity of many in this racket.

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December 29, 2022 - 7:30 pm
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clarence said

Chuck said

Marks do look a little strange to me too.  Either way this was most likely not done by Winchester.

  

Applying faked markings merely draws attention to the brl replacement, which might have gone unnoticed by someone unaware of the change to off-side markings.  Suspect it’s not a mail-order, but merely a brl removed from another ’94.  So why go to the trouble to add crudely faked markings?  Because there’s no accounting for the stupidity of many in this racket.

  

Nice!

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December 29, 2022 - 9:31 pm
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clarence said

Chuck said

Marks do look a little strange to me too.  Either way this was most likely not done by Winchester.

  

Applying faked markings merely draws attention to the brl replacement, which might have gone unnoticed by someone unaware of the change to off-side markings.  Suspect it’s not a mail-order, but merely a brl removed from another ’94.  So why go to the trouble to add crudely faked markings?  Because there’s no accounting for the stupidity of many in this racket.

  

Are you saying both the circle P and the WP marks are all fake??

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December 29, 2022 - 9:45 pm
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If the factory replaced a barrel and they were using a already (oval P) mail order marked barrel from stock they would also add the WP to both the new barrel and the receiver if done after 1906 when PW’s were in use.

However the OP’s guns markings are so crude it is hard to believe Winchester did them. 

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December 29, 2022 - 9:53 pm
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Here’s a long discussion from a few years ago regarding this topic:

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/the-winchester-wp-and-oval-p-markings/

Don

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December 29, 2022 - 10:05 pm
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deerhunter said
Here’s a long discussion from a few years ago regarding this topic:

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/the-winchester-wp-and-oval-p-markings/

Don

  

Deerhunter,

I just got done going through that thread.  Very interesting stuff.  In 1892takedown’s initial post he supposes that guns with the WP on the barrel and receiver, and the oval P on the barrel would signify a parts barrel installed by Winchester.  I think this was disproven further down in the post.

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December 29, 2022 - 10:14 pm
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There’s also an example on page 26 of the most recent Winchester Collector magazine:

https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/202209/28/

Don

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December 29, 2022 - 11:05 pm
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mark minnillo said Are you saying both the circle P and the WP marks are all fake??

I’m saying that look fake.  Stranger looking even than a double strike by a careless workman.

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December 30, 2022 - 2:02 am
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There is also a good article addressing the WP and Circle P by Dan Shuey in the Summer 2018 magazine.

 

https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201806/18/#zoom=z

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