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Hello to all!
Forgive my ignorance of the subject, but I’m wondering if anyone can provide me with some information regarding half-round/half-octagon barrels, specifically on 1894 rifles. I’ve been looking at an 1894 that is for sale, DOM in 1908 with a button mag and 26″ half/half barrel. My question is, how common are these barrels on 1894s? Are they rare, or common? I’d greatly appreciate any insight.
Based on my research survey, 11.25% of all Model 1894 Rifles were manufactured with a ½ octagon barrel. That equates to a production number of approximately 65,000 total, which is what I would classify as “common”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Thanks for the information! You cleared that one up in a hurry! I’ve decided to pass on it for now.
November 7, 2015
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ck4241 said
Bert,Thanks for the information! You cleared that one up in a hurry! I’ve decided to pass on it for now.
Pass? I’ve always liked the way half-round barreled rifles looked and handled. Lots of folks think they’re somewhat scarce and attractive so they’re easier to sell when and if you decide to thin the herd. OTOH don’t listen to me, I’ve been known to buy a rifle because I think the wood is pretty. 😉
Mike
I love the Mod. ’94 with a 1/2 oct. bbl. but don’t care for the button mag. I think they’re especially attractive with a 22″ bbl’ and 12″ mag and a pistol grip stock
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Seems like half round barrels were usually paired with the button mag. I see far fewer half round and full magazines at least in my neck of the woods. I read somewhere that when a half round barrel was ordered it was automatically built with a half magazine unless magazine length was specified in the order. Don’t know if that is true or not.
mike webb said
Seems like half round barrels were usually paired with the button mag. I see far fewer half round and full magazines at least in my neck of the woods. I read somewhere that when a half round barrel was ordered it was automatically built with a half magazine unless magazine length was specified in the order. Don’t know if that is true or not.
Approximately 50% of the 1/2-octagon barreled Model 1894 Rifles I have surveyed have a full length magazine tube. I have not ever seen anything documented (written) about a 1/2 mag being “automatic” (standard) with a 1/2-octagon barrel.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
No kidding, 50 percent. Here in eastern Canada I see at least 10 half mags for every full magazine in half round 1894’s. That is over the 40 years I have been interested in Winchesters. Must be a regional thing.
mike webb said
No kidding, 50 percent. Here in eastern Canada I see at least 10 half mags for every full magazine in half round 1894’s. That is over the 40 years I have been interested in Winchesters. Must be a regional thing.
I just ran the numbers in my survey spreadsheet;
half-octagon barrels & magazine lengths;
Full = 207
1/2 = 193
2/3 = 18
3/4 = 1
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
mike webb said
No kidding, 50 percent. Here in eastern Canada I see at least 10 half mags for every full magazine in half round 1894’s. That is over the 40 years I have been interested in Winchesters. Must be a regional thing.
I just ran the numbers in my survey spreadsheet;
half-octagon barrels & magazine lengths;
Full = 207
1/2 = 193
2/3 = 18
3/4 = 1
Bert
Good information from a few years back. I agree with Mike as most I’ve seen have 1/2 magazines. I just picked one up with the full magazine. Researching I found one in “takedown” with a full magazine. That would make the full magazines approximately 5-6% of total production. I wonder what percentage of these were takedown?
A few years ago, on the Net, I found a really nice, early, 38-55 1/2 oct. full magazine. Mint bore too, so I bought it. Sent for a letter and found the rifle had sat in the whse. for 5 1/2 years. I guess the popularity of the caliber, 1/2 oct. bbls and full magazines had waned. # 348721 was PR’d 4-5-07. Shipped in 1912.
I really like this rifle. Most have bad bores. Not this one. Big Larry
OK, here are new (updated) numbers from my ongoing research survey. The survey begins at serial number 354000 and it runs through 1159897 (May 1907 to January 1938).
In that specified serial number range (805,898 total guns), I have surveyed & documented 13,755 guns (12,045 M/94s, 709 M/55s, and 1,001 M/64s).
Of the 12,045 M/94s, 5,808 are M/94 “Rifles” (the other 6,237 are Carbines).
Of the 5,808 Rifles, 505 of them have ½ Octagon barrels (or 8.7%)… not a statistical number that could reasonably be considered rare or even uncommon.
Of the 505 rifles with ½ Octagon barrels, the magazine tube length breakdown is as follows;
Full = 220 (43.56%)
½ = 259 (51.29%)
⅔ = 19 (3.76%)
¾ = 1
⅞ = 2
Of the 505 rifles with ½ Octagon barrels, 207 are Take Downs. The magazine tube lengths for the Take Down rifles almost mirrors the overall statistics.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, does your survey list the calibers for the 1/2 oct. bbl. rifles? I would think the scacer calibers would be the 38-55, 32-40, and the 25-35. Big Larry
Big Larry said
Bert, does your survey list the calibers for the 1/2 oct. bbl. rifles? I would think the scacer calibers would be the 38-55, 32-40, and the 25-35. Big Larry
It does…
30 WCF = 189 (37.4%)
32 WS = 168 (33.3%)
25-35 WCF = 61 (12.1%)
38-55 = 50 (9.9%)
32-40 = 37 (7.3%)
Bret
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert. I can assume my 38-55, at 50 rifles, can be considered scarce? Big Larry
Big Larry said
Thanks Bert. I can assume my 38-55, at 50 rifles, can be considered scarce? Big Larry
I am more inclined to say that it is “uncommon” versus “scarce”.
Keep in mind that my research survey currently has just 1.7% of the total 805,989 guns documented. Theoretically, if the (50) half-octagon 38-55s documented thus far are the same percentage (1.7%) of the total half-octagon barreled rifles that were manufactured, the extrapolated (potential) number of half-octagon 38-55s could or would be approximately 2,930 rifles.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Well Bert,out of 7 1/2 million M94’s, and some sort of survival rate, I certainly would call them scarce. Not pushing my particular rifle, but I cannot remember seeing another for sale recently. I do have a nicer 1916 full oct. bbl in 38-55, and proud owner of a 38-55 SRC. All 3 were a tough find. Maybe, due to the lack of, is why they are so expensive. BTW, thanks for all you do. I am now into collecting Colts. Big Larry
Big Larry said
A few years ago, on the Net, I found a really nice, early, 38-55 1/2 oct. full magazine. Mint bore too, so I bought it. Sent for a letter and found the rifle had sat in the whse. for 5 1/2 years. I guess the popularity of the caliber, 1/2 oct. bbls and full magazines had waned. # 348721 was PR’d 4-5-07. Shipped in 1912.I really like this rifle. Most have bad bores. Not this one. Big Larry
Interestingly enough,I encountered (and bought) a very similar rifle about 7 or so years ago.Mine is also 1/2 octagon, 38-55, full magazine, and mirror bright bore that slugs to .379. It letters to 1901 and left the factory configured as it is now.
It is a wonderful shooter, and has won me a fair share of silhouette matches.
Looking at Bert’s numbers – maybe not rare, but certainly uncommon…. anecdotally, anyway. I have been a regular gun show attendee for decades, and cannot recall the last time I saw one like mine. I have seen a few in 30-30.
A couple very nice examples are shared here! 
It’s days like this, and having our freedom to share and do so with other like minded people that we can appreciate our Independence and Freedom!
Thanks Guy’s!
Anthony
John D. said
Big Larry said
A few years ago, on the Net, I found a really nice, early, 38-55 1/2 oct. full magazine. Mint bore too, so I bought it. Sent for a letter and found the rifle had sat in the whse. for 5 1/2 years. I guess the popularity of the caliber, 1/2 oct. bbls and full magazines had waned. # 348721 was PR’d 4-5-07. Shipped in 1912.
I really like this rifle. Most have bad bores. Not this one. Big Larry
Interestingly enough,I encountered (and bought) a very similar rifle about 7 or so years ago.Mine is also 1/2 octagon, 38-55, full magazine, and mirror bright bore that slugs to .379. It letters to 1901 and left the factory configured as it is now.
It is a wonderful shooter, and has won me a fair share of silhouette matches.
Looking at Bert’s numbers – maybe not rare, but certainly uncommon…. anecdotally, anyway. I have been a regular gun show attendee for decades, and cannot recall the last time I saw one like mine. I have seen a few in 30-30.
Interestingly enough, earlier today I was reading the M1894 section in Mike Venturino’s Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West.
He tested all chamberings that the M1894 came in. He states, “In the beginning I had no intention of firing blackpowder in any of these five cartridges but right at the end of my test shooting, I decided to give it a try in .38-55 caliber. Am I glad I did! The .38-55 groups were the tightest ones given by blackpowder in any cartridge I tried.”
The .38-55 was of course around before Winchester chambered it in their single-shot or M1894 and was in the winner’s circle in many matches.
I’ve enjoyed the .38-55 in not only the M1894’s I’ve owned (rifles and carbines) but also in the Savage 1899’s I’ve owned (rifles and carbines) and the Marlin M1893’s I’ve owned (rifles and carbines). Oh, and there was one .38-55 Remington Lee sporting rifle. In the Winchester, Marlin and Savage lever rifles, it was the largest bore cartridge offered – which I’m sure influenced its appeal to me.
I don’t have a half-round M1894 .38-55, but I do have a half-round Marlin M1893 .38-55 (with half magazine).
