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1892 with factory mounted A-5 scope??
January 13, 2014
8:07 pm
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Troutdale, OR
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I believe this rifle is out of the letterable range so how would one verify its originality? It looks a bit funky to me, but it does have the offset proof mark on the barrel. What kind of indicators do you look for to determine whether or not it's a factory mounted scope?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/WINCHESTER-1892-WITH-FACTORY-MOUNTED-A-5-WINCHESTER-SCOPE.cfm?gun_id=100407170

January 14, 2014
4:34 am
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Remove the rear scope block and see if there is another proof mark under it. If so that is not good. Then do a forensic "finger print" type of comparison on the receiver proof mark compared to the offset barrel proof mark. If they are a match (struck with the same die) that is good. Then go on to the drill and tap holes which must be done at factory level workmanship. That is a start.

January 14, 2014
9:14 am
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Take a look at the scope blocks. The one pictured next to the receiver looks to have the Fecker Notch on it. Fecker started making scopes about 1921 or 1922 as I recall, but I'm not so sure that he was making his own bases that early. I have a factory scoped Winchester Sniper Rifle that was assembled in 1924 and the bases do not sport the Fecker Notch, although Winchester did use Fecker bases on later scoped rifles. My model 52 was made in the 1920s as well and it does not have the subject notch.

January 15, 2014
8:53 am
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You are correct in your assumption that Fecker bases came in around 1925 or so. The earlier Fecker scopes used Winchester mounts from the A5, so one could assume the bases they used were in fact Winchester cone type with no notch like used for the later Feckers. As for the M52's, they didn't start using the combination bases until sometime around 1933, when they went to a 7.2" spacing. My 1931 M52 has the cone type bases, while my 1934 M52 has the combination type that remained standard until the end. If that M92 is correct, it is cheap at the price. A good A5 is worth near $1,000 or more. Big Larry

January 15, 2014
10:24 am
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Big Larry,

You make some interesting notes. 1925 would be just about right on when Fecker began making his bases. For example my 1924 sniper used the Winchester bases with the cones, and the sniper that Julia auctioned off in 2010, a factory documented gun with a DOM of 1926, had the Fecker bases with the notch on both sides. These were state of the art custom made guns and would have been fitted with bases for like scopes, and Fecker was the scope of that day and time. However, Winchester was still in the scope business until the end of 1928, which is when they began moving it to Lyman. After 1928 is when I would expect to see Winchester using scope blocks made by Fecker, or another company. For example, I have a Winchester Model 57 target gun that is factory equipped with the combination blocks. The barrel date is 28, and the receiver would have a DOM of 1930, I believe it is. As you would know the model 57 was a slow-seller. That said there is no telling how long after 1930 the gun was shipped, so your idea of 1933 being a start date for when Winchester began using them seems very close to being correct.

I don't know much about the 1892, but if it is correct like you say, I'd say the price associated with it is reasonable.

James

January 15, 2014
10:43 am
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Another point I'd like to address about the subject 1892 rifle scope combo has to do with the Bennett offset adapters. I have two sets of them and they are extremely difficult to come by in any condition, and both of them are marked Winchester. I don't know how much the ones shown would add to the cost of the subject package, but I'd think it would be a minimum of $500.00 in the condition they look to be in.

James

January 16, 2014
9:22 am
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Not a lot to be known on the Fecker scope series, especially the very early ones marked Cleveland O. I have, in my collection #619, that is near mint, and it has A5 mounts. It is completely different than all the other Feckers I have seen. I know of one with a lower serial number, #3?? that was owned by Mr. Parson of the scope service. His was different than mine and it too had A5 mounts.
As for the blocs, The A5 and the 5A both had the pointed screw in type clamps all through production for the cone bases. The Targetspot had the screws for the combination bases and did later Feckers and Unertls. The first Unertls used Lyman mounts too.
Scoped lever rifles are extremely rare and subject to fakery and original old parts are hard to find. Big Larry

January 17, 2014
7:53 am
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JWM94
Could you post a photo of an offset adapter marked Winchester.All I have ever seen only had the patent date "PAT.MAY 24,1910"
Thanks

January 17, 2014
3:13 pm
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podufa said
JWM94
Could you post a photo of an offset adapter marked Winchester.All I have ever seen only had the patent date "PAT.MAY 24,1910"
Thanks

Hello podufa,

I wish I could oblige you, but it looks like I'm a prime candidate for the old childhood phrase "Liar, liar, pants on fire!" (Altogether now, 1, 2, 3!) 😯 Laugh I was not even close to being right about about the mounts being marked Winchester, but one set does have the patent date that you mentioned! The downside is that this is not a good sign for my memory and credibility...not to say I was well known for either one beforehand. 🙂 The upside though is that once I found the box they were stashed in, I found my wedding band that the wife and I thought had been lost for good years ago. That and the fact that I might try to sell the mounts before long might help my own cause!!!! 🙂

Here's a pic of them, and BTW, thanks for making the request that you did, as it goes a long way toward what we all like to do best, and that is help one another. Wink

b340c0bf-08e3-4d6d-9977-093b0767950b_zps1e5de725.jpgImage Enlarger

January 18, 2014
2:01 am
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Thanks for the photos. I also have an unmarked set , I always thought may be Lyman or Stevens.

January 18, 2014
10:45 am
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You're welcome. I don't have any reference that either of those companies made them, do you?

January 19, 2014
1:58 am
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Stroebel's book page 117 shows a page from a Lyman catalog of a scope on an 1892 Win. with off set mounts.

January 19, 2014
10:44 am
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I'm familiar with the picture that you mention, however, I can't say what year it was taken, even though the ad is dated 1938.

Given that Winchester did sell its scope business to Lyman and move it to them in late 1928 and early 1929, you might well be right in your thinking.

Off the subject a bit. I saw two octagon barrel Winchesters complete with old scopes and offset mounts for sell on GB about twelve years or so back. They were in great condition and sold, here we go with my memory again :), in the neighborhood of about $3000. I sure wish I would have bought them, I really do. Today most of the old guns with period scopes, mounts, and even bases have been robbed and sold separately. It's a shame. It really is.

January 20, 2014
10:07 am
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The 1925 Winchester catalog has the same picture as does the 1936 Lyman catalog.In the 1936 Lyman price list they sell for $2.75.

January 21, 2014
1:15 am
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In the "Gun Digest Book of Scopes and Mounts" by Bob Bell. About 1930 Lyman introduced offset adapters for the 5A and 438 scopes.
I have an 1892 with B3 scope and offset adapters,also has set triggers.

January 21, 2014
12:48 pm
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podufa said
In the "Gun Digest Book of Scopes and Mounts" by Bob Bell. About 1930 Lyman introduced offset adapters for the 5A and 438 scopes.
I have an 1892 with B3 scope and offset adapters,also has set triggers.

The 1930 date makes sense. It appears that they likely used those they got from Winchester, since yours has the patent date on them right?

It sounds as if you have a very special model 1892.

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