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This is not unusual, all the big Auction houses do this, a high % of the guns up for bid are actually owned by the Auction house. If you follow these and take time to set a spread sheet of the all the Winchesters sold over the past 10 to 15 years by these high end Auction Houses you will see them up for sale every few years by the same AH. As a very high end dealer once said to me one time Auction Houses are in the same category as a Wh*re Houses you are going to get scr*wed by both and as said in a previous post not much recourse if you are not satisfied, Buyer Beware.
Win38-55 said
You might have a very good point there, Mike. That makes more sense to me than believing that there are at least two high end collectors out there who are so out of touch with what an honest Winchester should look like, that they bid the thing up to 18K.
When I first looked at this auction on Sunday I was wondering how someone could bid that much on something so wrong. Already at picture No.1 it raised an eyebrow and by picture No.2 it was laughable. I was thinking shill bidders and a sucker but what you guys are thinking now makes more sense.
I’ve been happy enough finding guns when I want to buy one that I haven’t tried internet auctions. I’ve overheard too many conversations and been approached by too many dishonest people. I’m really happy for the people I know that seem to do well buying off internet auctions and stick with it after some bad deals. I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
Brad
Hedley Lamarr said
I’ve been happy enough finding guns when I want to buy one that I haven’t tried internet auctions. I’ve overheard too many conversations and been approached by too many dishonest people. I’m really happy for the people I know that seem to do well buying off internet auctions and stick with it after some bad deals. I don’t think I have the stomach for it.
You can say that again! Other than if I really wanted a shooter grade firearm at a really cheap price, I would never buy off the internet, either. I don’t know how folks have the stomach for it. Even the very best photos are not good enough (for me). Got to have it in hand, if spending big money. Also, the thrill is in the chase. Attending local auctions, gun shows, contacts through word of mouth. If you find it on the internet, you need to outsmart or outbid everyone else out there who has an interest in guns and has a computer. With non-on-line venues, the prospective audience is much less, often considerably so.
Mike Hunter said
Oh, the rifle is bogus all right, but I think there is more going on than a simple sale of a fake rifle. There are too many issues with the rifle for any serious collector to pay that kind of money for an engraved 92 on Gun broker.My guess is that the rifle was bought back by the seller or one of his friends to give the rifle some sales history.
It could be a simple as bragging rights… “See guys I have an $18,000 Winchester”.
Possibly for resale at a later date, like a pawn shop a year from now… “Can I pawn this for $9000, it sold for $18,000 in 2014”?
Or most likely insurance fraud, “there was an $18, 000 Winchester in my doublewide when it burned up’, or” I was robbed of my Winchester collection”.
Whatever the case, my gut tells me that there is more to this auction than meets the eye.
I think Mike hit the nail on the head. No Winchester collector would fall for that rifle and I think it’s purchase was arranged by the seller to build history and perhaps defraud an insurance company. Something I notice a fair bit on Gunbroker is high dollar firearms advertised with really crappy photos(dark, blurry, no close ups). Even if I had that kind of money I wouldn’t bid on such an item.
Fellows,
The seller is a Lady who runs a gun shop in Alabama, and she had nothing to do with a "shill" bidder. The rifle was actually sold to a real buyer (albeit a highly uneducated Winchester buyer).
Like many of you, I am very confounded by the fact that anyone would spend that kind of $$$$$ on an undocumented Winchester, and one that is so obviously a very poorly done fake.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
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There were several bidders on this auction I recognized from quite a few other extremely expensive Winchesters sales I have followed recently on Gunbroker………most of them way out of my price range. I have noticed some of these folks literally just keep bidding until they take it home. They obviously have more money than time to do any kind of research. Some of these folks have picked up rifles that were correct as well, so they get lucky once in a while.
Sometimes I wonder if the hobby would be as interesting if you had so much money that you could have just about any gun you wanted. To me there’s something that drives the collector even more when you cant afford them all and you have to actually save up for them, or cut one out of the herd to pay for the next one. Like most things in life, they mean more when there is hard work and sacrifice required to earn them.
~Gary~
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