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January 26, 2011
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Is anyone else watching this rifle? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403454890
I don’t know much about engraved rifles as they are usually out of my budget constraints. This one says factory engraved, but it looks a little sloppy to me. Much too late for a letter, so cant verify it. It doesn’t look right compared to catalog examples. Serial number looks very lightly stamped, or possibly buffed and refinished. Should the caliber stamp have the decimal before the 44?
Nice looking rifle, but a lot of money to spend on something that you cant letter.
Just curious if anyone else has thoughts.
~Gary~
With a late serial number like 832,173 (which I believe the PRR will put this gun at a 1916 DOM), there should be WP proof marks on the receiver and barrel, looks like there are neither. If so, the gun was redone. CC doesn’t look right either on lever, hammer and buttstock. Not sure about the wood. Just my 2 cents from what I see, but I’m no expert. I’m sure we will see what others think.
Matt
Edit: I think I can barely see a proof mark on the barrel in photo # 18.
January 26, 2011
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Yes, I see a hint of a proof mark on the barrel and nothing on the receiver. Seems a little late for case colored lever, hammer, and plate too. There are quite a few questionable items on this rifle, but several people thought it was a rare bird since it went for $18k 😯 . I didn’t even think it would go that high if it was 100% correct.
~Gary~
When the buyer eventually finds out that rifle is completely bogus, it would be real interesting to be a fly on the wall. That is going to be one truly expensive lesson ❗
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Gun looks totally redone with cold blue but the pictures are poor. The wood has been refinished as well. I can see wood filler in front of the forearm to fill the gap. The engraving was done by a amateur.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
This is either sad, or the bidders involved know what they are getting, or?????
James
Ignorance is bliss?? WOW! That is crazy expensive for a rifle that screams not correct. The lever and hammer should not be CC at this time period. The engraving is certainly not original. It would take just a little bit of effort to compare with known examples to see the problems. And, this is the [color=red:74ab4b4793]HUGE RED WARNING FLAG[/color:74ab4b4793]: Inspection Period / Return Policy AS IS – No refund or exchange
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I know collectors who will not take advise from others and always get taken to the cleaners. They believe they know more than you and taking your advise is a insult.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
The whole thing screams bogus! However, what about the front sight? Has anyone ever seen a front sight like this one on a Winchester? I am just curious if anything like it ever existed on anything other than a fake?
mrcvs said
The whole thing screams bogus! However, what about the front sight? Has anyone ever seen a front sight like this one on a Winchester? I am just curious if anything like it ever existed on anything other than a fake?
I have not personally seen a goldwashed like that on a gun, by I have not seen near as many up here as many of you folks. That said, that was the first thing that jumped out at me when I started looking at the photos. Maybe it is correct, but it just didn’t look "right".
Matt
Seen lots of these front sights….
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Beech_Combination_Front_Sight_it-163927.aspx?MANF=1068
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=2185
The engraving was done with an electric engraver, the type used for putting ID on metal objects. I would call it $19.95 type engraving (cost of an engraver) 
That is one of those repo beech sights I have seen before.
When I first looked at the engraving I did think it looked like it was done with a vibropeen pen but figured it couldn’t be done but the more I look at it, I think it is.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
"Road King" said
The engraving was done with an electric engraver, the type used for putting ID on metal objects. I would call it $19.95 type engraving (cost of an engraver)
So $19.95 "engraving" = $18,025 gun? 😯
I’m in the wrong business, lol.
"Road King" said
Seen lots of these front sights….http://www.buffaloarms.com/Beech_Combination_Front_Sight_it-163927.aspx?MANF=1068
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=2185
The engraving was done with an electric engraver, the type used for putting ID on metal objects. I would call it $19.95 type engraving (cost of an engraver)
So, you have seen lots of these sights before? Maybe, but I think they are all new/reproduction ones. Even on the most high-end Winchesters, I have never seen one like that one before.
That’s what I was getting at in my earlier post. Seen these sights, but never one actually on a rifle.
Matt
I sure feel bad for the ‘winner’ of the auction. That is one time I’d much rather be a looser.
Oh, the rifle is bogus all right, but I think there is more going on than a simple sale of a fake rifle. There are too many issues with the rifle for any serious collector to pay that kind of money for an engraved 92 on Gun broker.
My guess is that the rifle was bought back by the seller or one of his friends to give the rifle some sales history.
It could be a simple as bragging rights… “See guys I have an $18,000 Winchester”.
Possibly for resale at a later date, like a pawn shop a year from now… “Can I pawn this for $9000, it sold for $18,000 in 2014”?
Or most likely insurance fraud, “there was an $18, 000 Winchester in my doublewide when it burned up’, or” I was robbed of my Winchester collection”.
Whatever the case, my gut tells me that there is more to this auction than meets the eye.
Mike Hunter said
Oh, the rifle is bogus all right, but I think there is more going on than a simple sale of a fake rifle. There are too many issues with the rifle for any serious collector to pay that kind of money for an engraved 92 on Gun broker.My guess is that the rifle was bought back by the seller or one of his friends to give the rifle some sales history.
It could be a simple as bragging rights… “See guys I have an $18,000 Winchester”.
Possibly for resale at a later date, like a pawn shop a year from now… “Can I pawn this for $9000, it sold for $18,000 in 2014”?
Or most likely insurance fraud, “there was an $18, 000 Winchester in my doublewide when it burned up’, or” I was robbed of my Winchester collection”.
Whatever the case, my gut tells me that there is more to this auction than meets the eye.
Very interesting points Mike. That certainly could be the case. I think the same thing probably happens on Ebay, or at least people have "help" bidding up their items.
Matt
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