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June 28, 2025
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I have a 1886 Saddle Ring Carbine in 50 EXP. It is in a small group of rifles that records are not available for some reason. I believe this is an original 50 EXP from the factory but cannot verify through records. The A after the serial# indicates a magazine change during production. I think that helps? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I have attached some pics. Thanks
November 19, 2006
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Interesting carbine. The M1886 carbine was standardly produced with a carbine buttstock and carbine buttplate. I have seen M1886’s with special order rifle buttstocks (and they lettered). It’s also not uncommon that buttstocks got swapped as a M1886 rifle buttstock will readily fit on a M1886 carbine. If your carbine is original, I think it would be quite uncommon as I have never seen a rifle buttstock on a .50 Express carbine. As right as it might appear (e.g. consistent overall condition/wear) you will likely not be able to convince a collector it is original. Have you taken the buttstock off? I would be curious if there are any markings on inlet for the upper tang or on the metal on the right inside of the tang. I’d also take the forearm off to see what markings are on the under side of the barrel.
All M1886’s (carbine or rifles) in .50 caliber took some additional manufacturing steps (e.g. machining of some of the internals of action, as well as the breech end of the barrel) for the big .50 caliber cartridges to cycle through the gun and feed into the chamber. If I had your carbine, the first thing I would do is check to insure .50-110 cartridges would feed and cycle through the action.
April 15, 2005
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It appears to be a correct (legitimate) SRC with a special order “rifle” butt and sling mounts. Does it properly cycle rounds from the magazine through ejection?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 28, 2025
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I have not shot this rifle. Those are very interesting replies. Thanks for the input.
June 28, 2025
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I’m going to try and get some ammo and see how the 50 110 cycles.
April 15, 2005
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cobra2858 said
I’m going to try and get some ammo and see how the 50 110 cycles.
Smart move.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Certainly looks like an honest carbine. That doesn’t preclude a stock swap when it was much newer. Probably worth a closer look.
Mike
December 9, 2002
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Bill,
I like everything about this Carbine, as do others here! 
Es specially the caliber!
Thanks for posting!
Anthony
June 28, 2025
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I also have this 1886 50 EXP with a letter. It seems it went back to the factory for a smaller caliber, and the 50 Exp barrel subsequently put back on. I am posting pics for any thoughts. Thanks Bill
November 19, 2006
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Interesting. Nice rifle. You don’t see takedown .50 Expresses every day. At least I don’t.
So I suppose when he had the .33 barrel fit to the rifle, he kept the .50 Ex. barrel. He probably didn’t even send it with the rifle. Then later, the .50 Ex. barrel ended back up on the rifle and the .33 barrel somehow didn’t stay with the rifle? Maybe ended up in a closet, forgotten, unknown to the heirs?
December 21, 2006
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The way I read it; Gun was mfg’d 1895 in .50 cal., repaired in Nov. 1895 then returned in 1903 changed to .33 cal. , but didn’t ship out again till 1905. Nowhere does it say it was changed back to .50 cal.. I’m not sayin’ the gun ain’t right , just it’s one of those baffling letters that a person has to interpret with the gun in hand, I’ve had a few of ’em .
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
November 19, 2006
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Henry Mero said
The way I read it; Gun was mfg’d 1895 in .50 cal., repaired in Nov. 1895 then returned in 1903 changed to .33 cal. , but didn’t ship out again till 1905. Nowhere does it say it was changed back to .50 cal.. I’m not sayin’ the gun ain’t right , just it’s one of those baffling letters that a person has to interpret with the gun in hand, I’ve had a few of ’em .
Henry –
I think that sums it up.
So if you added a .33 barrel, would you have a, “letterable” two-barrel set?
I think it would be quite the fun set if a .33 front end were added.
December 9, 2002
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Very interesting!
A nice rifle, as Henry brings up a very good point!
I like the way you think, Steve. A two barrel set would be nice, and with the current letter, that Jessica provided, would be enough provenance for me, even if the factory didn’t switch it back!
Thanks for sharing!
Anthony
February 17, 2022
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I am not seeing something here. The letter tells of an R&R 4 months after being shipped in 95. Then it was returned in ’03 and someway made up into a 33wcf, whether the whole rifle was there or just a TD assembly, is hard to determine. BUT, what ever it was sat there for over 2 years before it shipped. this is the conundrum for me. I hate to say it but with out definitive proof I suspect the barrel on it is not an original barrel. What leads me to this is the caliber stamp. It is missing the hyphen and the ends of the letters are round as if laser engraved, and the 5 doesn’t have the little curl up at the opening.
Edit to post, it would appear that the hyphen may not be as big a deal as I originally thought as I was digging and found that it wasn’t used all the time.
September 22, 2011
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One cannot assume the barrel on it now is the original one. If the gun returned to the factory in 1903, and was shipped in 1905 in the .33 Winchester configuration, it’s unlikely that the owner in 1903 sent it to be changed to .33 Winchester due to the two year lag. I think it was returned and the original owner ceded ownership for credit or otherwise.
I am guessing that for whatever reason it languished at Winchester, and was changed to a newer chambering (but I have no good explanation why). In those days, these were not collected, but used, so it’s doubtful this rifle shipped in .33 Winchester in 1905 also with its original .50 Express barrel, and, if it did, I think the letter would state such.
I think that, since additional steps are required for fitting to .50 Express, someone might have recognized this, and reconfigured to .50 Express due to added value. It could be that an original .50 Express barrel was used, but those aren’t exactly a dime a dozen.
The rechambering in this specific carbine was interesting had it still existed for two reasons that make this carbine unique:
1. It’s a way to have an antique .33 Winchester Model 1886 even though the .33 Winchester round did not come out until 1903, and, therefore, most are not pre 1899;
2. You would have a .33 Winchester carbine, which is extremely rare. I believe ONE was supposedly manufactured. And this carbine would not be that one, as the one in .33 Winchester would have been as originally chambered and, for manufacturing totals, this carbine would have fallen under .50 Express production numbers.
While .50 Express is infinitesimally more desirable than .33 Winchester, it’s unfortunate that this carbine doesn’t match the letter as in its latest incarnation.
The only other explanation is that the carbine was changed back to .50 Express at the factory, but the R & R was not noted due to clerical error or too late a date. But that falls under mere speculation.
December 9, 2002
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I know and realize that sometimes we can get to be a little finicky and picky, as my old late friend, Larry, would accuse me of that often! Yet he would buy a lot of different stuff, to throw on his table at the local show, and complain, nothing was moving, cause the interest wasn’t there anymore. Not to get off track here or start an argument, as I could do very easily, as I like to view both sides! Buy or collect what you want, is my point!
Heck, “I wouldn’t throw her outa bed for eatin cookies”, neither!
I would be happy to own this piece with the letter, and the extra barrel!
Conundrum? , yeah! We could categorize this one in more than one way, and it’s good to see members stating they’re view points, as I’d like to hear more of this as a matter of fact! IMHO!
Heck! Like Waylon used to say, “I’ve Always Been Crazy”, as many of my friends can attest too!
Just my two Cents Worth!
Anthony
February 17, 2022
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Ian the gun in question is not the gentleman’s carbine, but the rifle later in the post. The carbine is to late to letter.
December 21, 2006
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Y a’, We got to talking about two different firearms here. On the rifle , I think the letter is “wonky” , as I’ve seen several similar in the past and owned a few and would love to own any of them . I have one coming that letters with a “burl maple” stock but some of the other features on the gun are not mentioned, so I’m waiting to get it “in hand” to determine bad gun or bad letter.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
April 15, 2005
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cobra2858 said
I also have this 1886 50 EXP with a letter. It seems it went back to the factory for a smaller caliber, and the 50 Exp barrel subsequently put back on. I am posting pics for any thoughts. Thanks Bill
This rifle should positively be a 33 WCF. The original 50 Express barrel was not returned or resold with the rifle, hence it should not have a 50 EX barrel on it today.
Based on how the factory letter reads, this rifle was sold to a dealer (business) and it did not sell. The dealer/store subsequently sent it back to Winchester. Winchester then rebarreled it to the then brand new smokeless cartridge and it then sat in the warehouse for a few years before it was sold & shipped.
Because it is a Take Down, swapping the barrel assembly is a relatively easy task, and somebody well after the fact illicitly did exactly that (undoubtedly to enhance the value of the rifle for a more profitable sale).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 22, 2011
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oldcrankyyankee said
Ian the gun in question is not the gentleman’s carbine, but the rifle later in the post. The carbine is too late to letter.
I see that…this is why it’s best to start a new thread.
First carbine, I like it.
Rifle, that doesn’t have the .33 Winchester barrel matching the letter, is problematic. To me, it might be more valuable with a .33 takedown barrel on it, making it more correct, and then sell the .50 Express barrel separately. Hopefully, it doesn’t fall into deviant hands.
