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July 15, 2024
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Hello I obtained an 1885 high wall that was listed as a test rifle or action and I’m assuming they ment Winchester test rifle. I have no reason to doubt this but I was wondering if anyone could add to what this might have been used for and maybe explain what some of the less obvious caliber markings might represent.
Although this was listed as an early or antique model I find this dubious as it has many late features like coil spring action, a fly cut hammer and top tang markings. It has thick sides and has had the front face milled away similar as a takedown rifle but has no cuts for the adapter to clock or latch nor are the barrel threads removed for this. It is also missing the extractor. The locking lugs look to be case hardened but that’s just based on their appearance. On the left side it has caliber stamps including 45 70, 303, 300, 38-55 haphazardly done and also 7 m m farther back. There are three individual “1” numeral markings on both sides with two the left, one being large one small with an identical small “1” mirror imaged on the right. I guess this is where they got the idea to list this rifle’s serial number as 1! The lower tang is unmarked and the upper tang has what looks like typical markings but from what I have researched in my 2 books (one being Maddis) the markings don’t exactly match any that are stamped on the upper tangs over the various years or at least in the order there supposed to appear. From what I read, on late models, the “TRADE MARK” die stamping is supposed to be at the top not bottom and there are other differences as well. On the inside of the lower tang there is a “CNS” marking and on the inside upper tang, a triangle symbol and a “24” . The top of the action has a proof mark where it typically would be. Other than that there are no other visiable markings.
I got it as project to make it into a takedown rifle as I always wanted an 1885 high wall that had interchangeable barrels. I have accumulated a few adapters and barrels for this purpose and plan on doing the machining unless there is some historical reason I am not aware of. And honestly the way it has been milled it doesn’t appear to be good for really much else. Thanks Nick
April 15, 2005
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The odds are extremely high that it was a factory cartridge test action. Most of them were serialized (yours is the first one I have encountered that is not serialized). Based on the fact that it is a Take Down, it was manufactured after 1907. The upper tang marking indicates post-1912.
Winchester’s ballistic test lab would have installed the specific extractor needed for the cartridge being tested at time.
The upper tang stamp is the Type-2 marking found on the 2nd variation high-wall Winder Muskets (manufactured from 1912 – 1918). The “CNS” is the steel maker’s marking – Crucible Nickel Steel. The other markings are inspector stamps.
Type-1 tang marking
Type-2 tang marking
Type-3 tang marking (3rd variation Winder Muskets)
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 23, 2009
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hawssie said
I got it as project to make it into a takedown rifle as I always wanted an 1885 high wall that had interchangeable barrels. I have accumulated a few adapters and barrels for this purpose and plan on doing the machining unless there is some historical reason I am not aware of. And honestly the way it has been milled it doesn’t appear to be good for really much else. Thanks Nick
In my personal opinion I would not modify the action in anyway and leave it original as is. You have a very rare factory item and my belief is that to modify it would be a decrease to its value for what it is. Bert may have a better idea on this, but I doubt few test rifles or “test actions” were made over the years. I’d guess less than a maybe a few hundred? If that many? With most likely destroyed over the years.
I’d make myself a nice shadow box, stick in it as is and admire it on the wall for what it is.
That said, if you wanted to make up something somehow to make a functional firearm, as long as you don’t modify it and everything was reversible to its current condition. I think that would be a good solution.
Sincerely,
Maverick
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December 9, 2002
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I agree, Maverick!
It’s pretty special, and with Bert’s knowledge as one of the fore most authorities that we all lean on, for this specific area, amongst others, I wouldn’t do anything to alter this fine specimen either.
hawssie,(Nick), please refrain from you’re first thoughts on altering the action, as I’m sure that you could re coup you’re investment, if you’re interested in doing so, that you could put the funds toward a rebuild, or another 1885! IMO!
Thanks for sharing.
Anthony
