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Were 1873 magazine tubes ever threaded into the receiver? I am dealing with an 1889 manufactured rifle that I am unable to remove the magazine tube .The tube moves 1/8 turn in ring and forend cap after removeing ring pin and forend screws and rotates slightly in forend wood .I am unable to pull tube out .Forend will not move.Rifle has good patina and I do not wish to damage this or break the magazine tube seam. . My goal is to clean and inspect the barrel where it is covered by the forend. Is the tube locked with rust, grease ,and dirt or could there be a thread on the tube at the receiver.
No they are not threaded in. Its probably got a little rusty or old dried oil under the the wood. You have to be careful not to get to carried away with twisting on the tube since its actually was made by rolling a flat sheet and soldering the seam. Excess force can cause the seam to split. There is no need to clean under there anyway. Many of guns have lost value from “excess cleaning”. Collectors get excited when they see dirt and grime around and in the slots of screws and in the corners of the barrel and mag tube. It tells them the gun has been together for a very long time.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Understood.I stopped at this point fearing damage to forend components.Thanks 1873man.I have seen that tube on a cut tube gun that I replaced the tube on.The seam appears to only be a butt joint soldered together,a weak arrangement.
Not sure about the 1873, or what caliber tube size you are working with but I have used this trick several times on antique Model 1886 rifles (they have a slightly larger tube than the 44-40):
a 1/2″ copper pipe fits perfectly inside the magazine tube (never have worked on 33 caliber tubes). I use an 18″ length of pipe. Drill a 3/8″ hole about 4″ inches from the end, then drill a 9/32″ hole exactly 180° opposite the larger hole. Then insert the pipe into the magazine tube until the large hole lines up with the endcap screw hole – should be a perfect match. Then insert a tapered nail punch into the large hole and get the tip into the smaller hole (the magazine tubes I’ve worked on don’t have an endcap screw going all the way through). Gently tap on the exposed end of the nail punch (I use a nylon tipped hammer) and slowly the magazine tube will move forward. Once you get the nail punch about 1/4″ past the muzzle, you can use gentle slight back and forth rotating motions and the magazine tube will come out with no marring.
Make sure you use plenty of thick oil on the magazine tube where it is sliding through the retaining band – I use Groile from Vans.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
He did say he removed it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I was unable to remove mag tube plug screw .I see I can place penetrating oil at the mag tube receiver junction thru the receiver.There is a technique of using a hose clamp applied at the plug section of the mag tube and tapping toward muzzle lightly to remove the mag tube.
I can understand taking it apart to fix a problem but the more you try to use force the more chances of scaring up the gun just to clean it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Understood,I may spend months or years on that magazine receiver joint before I attempt removal again. I am actually seeing if anyone has experience with the hose clamp technique .
If the magazine tube will rotate as you mentioned above it sounds like its either froze on the wood or you have some rust/crud on the mag tube. Ive used PB Blaster on the magazine band and spray on inside of receiver at the magazine tube. If you can rotate it any by hand you just keep working it from side to side and it may come free. Once you get it moving a little more from side to side you can begin working it out of the magazine band. Be sure to clean the magazine tube ahead of the forend cap–its a tight fit through that retaining band and any crud can hang it up or even scratch the mag tube. I dont recommend, but Ive used pliers on the end cap to rotate but you better make sure you put something between the tool and the end cap otherwise you will damage it–or may damage it anyway. I like Wincachers idea. The biggest problem when you try to use that end cap screw hole, putting a punch or something else in it to aid in rotating the mag tube, you run the risk of deforming the end of the magazine tube and/or warping/breaking the thin metal at the screw opening. If it doesnt need to be taken apart and its as difficult as you say, you should probably leave it as is.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Problem with mag tube plug hole is screw is frozen in place.These old black powder guns fired with fulminate of Hg primers even when well cared for would have cleaning water run across these cap screws and cause corrosion.Hence the attempt to remove mag tube.I did the oil and plier procedure and tube would rotate slightly in metal and wood except the mag tube recess in the receiver.Trying soak in small amounts of penetranting oil through rear of mag tube opening. This could take a very long time though. Patience pays in these projects.
I would forget the oil and get some PB Blaster from you nearest auto parts store. It acts as a catalyst to break up rust. I know a lot of folks like Kroil–and Ive tried it- but found PB works faster on screws or just about anything else that has seized. On some of the harder screws Ive encountered a quick spray and 5-10 minute soak later (sometimes less) its out. I once found a pair of fencing pliers that had been laying on the ground in the pasture for a couple years. They were froze open, After soaking with WD-40 for about a week I couldnt even take a hammer to the handles to get them budge. I started spraying that PB on each side of the pliers. It took about 3 spray applications and 2 weeks of letting it sit, and some elbow grease, before it was no longer seized. They work flawlessly now. My wife hates how it smells–keeps her out of my shop though.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
January 26, 2011
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1892takedown said
My wife hates how it smells–keeps her out of my shop though.
Chris,
That reminds me of when my Dad used to come out to Wyoming for hunting season and stay at our old ranch house. It was a very small house so my reloading bench was in the spare bedroom and it also served as a place to clean rifles. After his first night there since I had added the bench I stepped in and ask him how he slept. He replied “ahhh…….I love the smell of Hoppes first thing in the morning” with a big smile. He was always so happy to come out from Iowa and spend time out hunting mule deer and antelope with me. I sure miss him.
Sorry to get off topic, but thought you might appreciate that story.
~Gary~
I like PB and Liquid Wrench both,however they can get away particularly into wood. I am using a very small amount of Mobile 5-30 .The synthetic seems to penetrate well and soften rust but it takes time.I just placed it yesterday with an old needle oiler and I may wait for weeks with the gun stood on its muzzle.Then dismount the barrel pin and forend cap,tape the magazine plug area ,apply the hose clamp and lightly tap towards the muzzle and see if the tube moves foward.If not wait longer.
Gary,
Its funny how something as simple as a smell can bring back a lot of fond memories.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Folks,
I also pursue the old, letter car Chrysler 300’s. The website for that years ago posted a recipe for what seems the best penetrant/rust breaker. It is a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid (very detergentistic) and naptha. If memory serves, which may not be true anymore, it was proven the best by some engineering school. I use it and have had great success with it on very rusty parts for automobile applications. I would be rather cautious, though, around wood from firearms. However, rusted metal seems to rather quickly give way with this product, with items readily available to anyone. I should think it would do well if the penetrant can be kept at the metal juncture of the magazine tube and the receiver, and the tube and appropriate bands. The naptha ensures it creeps into the smallest voids.
Tim Tomlinson
Still trying to get the magazine cap screw out .Have periodically placed a small amount of Kroil on it snd some at magazine -receiver interface .Fired the old girl recently with Black Hills cartridges,first remotely and then from shoulder.Nice gun. May try impact driver on magazine cap screw.Have done this succesfully in the past.Copper tube method of magazine removal sounds good once plug is out.
I have a suggestion, sniff the penetrating oil, then put the gun, the impact driver, and the penetrating oil away. Disassembling antique guns for no real purpose is counter productive. T/R
TR said
I have a suggestion, sniff the penetrating oil, then put the gun, the impact driver, and the penetrating oil away. Disassembling antique guns for no real purpose is counter productive. T/R
+1.
Under the circumstances noted can’t see too many positive outcomes from your cleaning and inspection.
TR said
I have a suggestion, sniff the penetrating oil, then put the gun, the impact driver, and the penetrating oil away. Disassembling antique guns for no real purpose is counter productive. T/R
++++ Most people that have not worked on magazine tube removals will cause more damage than good. Even a high condition gun builds up crud under the barrel bands. It is a very tedious process to clean each end of the bands about 1/16″ inch at a time working in and out. Ever wonder why so many takedown guns have swirls on the mag tube?
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