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Model 92 for your perusal
May 26, 2018
12:16 am
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West of Fresno, CA
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Here's sn 1004676, 32 WCF, 28" half octagon/half round barrel (14 round magazine tube) with pistol grip and double set triggers.  Based on Proof House data, it was one of the last 90 some odd made in 1941.  Regular trigger pull is sweet while resting on a hair when set.IMG_2041.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2043.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2044.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2045.JPGImage Enlarger  BK

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May 26, 2018
6:11 am
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Kingston, WA
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Bruce,

First question... why would you use the Proof House DOM data?  I can positively tell you that it is not an accurate reference source.  Based on my research (of the Model 65), serial number 1004654 (just 23 units before the subject rifle) is confirmed as being applied on December 6th, 1939.  The serial number on the subject rifle was most likely applied on the same date, or possibly a day or two later.  It would be very interesting to check the barrel date on this rifle. 

Can you tell me (or post pictures of) what all the factory markings on the barrel are?  I am especially interested in the steel alloy type (e.g. Nickel Steel, Proof Steel, or not marked for either type).

Of possible interest, I have serial numbers 1004604, 1004625, 1004634, 1004644, 1004652, 1004654, 1004657, 1004669, 1004677, 1004686, 1004692, 1004693, and 1004698 all documented in my research survey as Model 65 Rifles in the 218 Bee caliber.  After serial number 1000724 was reached, 99.13% of the remaining production was Model 65 rifles (459 of the 463 in my survey).

Bert

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May 26, 2018
11:32 am
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Bruce Koligian said
Here's sn 1004676, 32 WCF, 28" half octagon/half round barrel (14 round magazine tube) with pistol grip and double set triggers.  Based on Proof House data, it was one of the last 90 some odd made in 1941.  Regular trigger pull is sweet while resting on a hair when set.IMG_2041.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2043.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2044.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2045.JPGImage Enlarger  BK  

Hello Bruce,

Thanks for posting your quite unique Model 92.  The barrel is "most likely" a very early production run since just the caliber stamp, without any Model designation, is located on the left side in front of the receiver face.  At that late point in the production there is no Model designation on the tang.  ANY chance that the Model designation is located on the right hand side of the barrel?  Please provide photos of all the stamped writing on the rifle.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

May 27, 2018
5:43 pm
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Thank you. 

1.  Bert, where can I find accurate data?  Is it somewhere in this forum or do I ask in a post??

2.  Michael, I'll get the rifle out and take serious camera photos of it including all visible stamps.  However, I have no desire to remove the fore-stock at this time to see what is under it.  Being manufactured late in the Mod 92 run, I figured the factory was just cleaning shelves and bins of remaining parts.  BK

May 27, 2018
6:12 pm
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Bruce Koligian said
Thank you. 

1.  Bert, where can I find accurate data?  Is it somewhere in this forum or do I ask in a post??

BK  

Bruce,

Currently, it would be easier to ask here on the forum (or send a PM to me).  One of my projects is to get the WACA DOM look-up function updated with the recent serial number data I have received over the past few years from members who have verified serial numbers from Pauline Muerrle.  You can get the exact date for your Model 92 from her.  The PR records the CFM has for the Model 92/65 cover serial numbers 1 - 917240 (through December 15, 1920), and 1006822 - 1007608 (ending on October 23, 1945)

Bert

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May 28, 2018
1:15 pm
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2.  Michael, I'll get the rifle out and take serious camera photos of it including all visible stamps.  However, I have no desire to remove the fore-stock at this time to see what is under it.  Being manufactured late in the Mod 92 run, I figured the factory was just cleaning shelves and bins of remaining parts.  BK

Bruce,

I look forward to seeing the images.  I suspect that the barrel may have been manufactured prior to when barrel dates were applied.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

May 29, 2018
4:46 pm
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Bert, thanks for that information!

Here are additional photos.  Unlike my 1926 Mod 92 short rifle, there is no model designation on either the barrel or receiver tang.  In fact, there are no stamps except the ones shown here.  Muzzle is white (and has a spot of rust I didn't notice).  IMG_2053.JPGImage Enlarger  IMG_2054.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2055.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2056.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2057.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2058.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2061.JPGImage Enlarger

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May 29, 2018
6:57 pm
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Kingston, WA
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Bruce,

Michael will undoubtedly have better details than I do, but it appears to me that the barrel is about 20-years older than the receiver frame that it is attached to.  The upper tang marking is the correct type for the serial number.  The fact that the lower tang is for a straight grip versus a pistol grip leads me to believe that it was intentionally built to be a Model 92 versus a Model 65, and that it may have been a parts clean-up rifle.

Bert

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May 29, 2018
7:49 pm
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Thanks for the extra photos Bruce.  

There are a few disconcerting points.  On half octagon barreled rifles  which have the Type 3 address stamp like yours it is almost always positioned so that the N in NEW  is located exactly above the seam of the fore end cap and the wood.  The other point is that I have seen several SRC's in the 978000 and later range which have the Type 3 address and #7 tang stamp and Winchester went through the trouble of having the Model designation stamped on the right side of the barrel so that the gun would have a model designation on it.  Could you please post a detail photo or two of the transition point for the RB to OB portion of the barrel?

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

May 30, 2018
4:09 am
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IMG_2066.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2064.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2067.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_2068.JPGImage Enlarger

 

These might help.  The left hand look of the octagon to round transition is the same as the right.  There is no model designation on any exposed surfaces.  When I purchased this rifle, I knew it was a late, clean-up, parts bin special.  I just hope it isn't a turkey...I'll check the safe for the presence of eggs tomorrow.  Seriously, due to the wood compression just behind the fore-end cap, I suspect it has been removed in the past.  Therefore I might remove the wood to look for any hidden barrel markings.  But that will take a few days.

Thanks for your valued comments.  B

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May 30, 2018
5:42 pm
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I believe the stock is not original to this receiver.

June 1, 2018
10:22 pm
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No eggs, no feathers.  I carefully tried to remove the nosecap but it's rock-solid.  Thanks for the comments.

December 31, 2018
3:49 am
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I have a model 92 serial number 902404 if you’re still doing your survey. 

December 31, 2018
11:54 am
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mc5592@bellsouth.net said
I have a model 92 serial number 902404 if you’re still doing your survey.   

Good morningmc5592,

Yes, I am still at it.   Thanks so much for reaching out to add your rifle into the data.  Can  I please get more info and possibly photos of it?  What caliber is it?  Is it a carbine or sporting rifle configuration?  You can send me photos at 2bitrifles@gmail.com

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

December 31, 2018
6:26 pm
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Bert and Michael,

I have a mint model 65 in 218 bee serial number 1004680. Just 4 numbers from Bruce’s gun.

I have 4 model 92s    Serial number 919904 is a deluxe, number 688603 is a deluxe carbine, number 8503 is a standard rifle and number 399933 is a standard rifle. I don’t know if you have these guns in your survey or not. If you need further info on these guns I would be glad to help.

If anyone is doing surveys on model 64s I have four. Three are 219 zippers and one .32 caliber.

Gerald

December 31, 2018
6:42 pm
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Deluxe 76 said
Bert and Michael,

I have a mint model 65 in 218 bee serial number 1004680. Just 4 numbers from Bruce’s gun.

I have 4 model 92s    Serial number 919904 is a deluxe, number 688603 is a deluxe carbine, number 8503 is a standard rifle and number 399933 is a standard rifle. I don’t know if you have these guns in your survey or not. If you need further info on these guns I would be glad to help.

If anyone is doing surveys on model 64s I have four. Three are 219 zippers and one .32 caliber.

Gerald  

Hello Gerald,

SN 8503 and 399903 are both new rifles for my data.  Could  I pelase get a series of photos of each of these rifles?  Bert is collecting data on the Model 64's.

Happy New Year

Michael

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December 31, 2018
8:33 pm
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Deluxe 76 said
Bert and Michael,

I have a mint model 65 in 218 bee serial number 1004680. Just 4 numbers from Bruce’s gun.

I have 4 model 92s    Serial number 919904 is a deluxe, number 688603 is a deluxe carbine, number 8503 is a standard rifle and number 399933 is a standard rifle. I don’t know if you have these guns in your survey or not. If you need further info on these guns I would be glad to help.

If anyone is doing surveys on model 64s I have four. Three are 219 zippers and one .32 caliber.

Gerald  

Gerald,

Model 65 serial number 1004680 is a new entry for the survey.  Based on the data I have recorded thus far, it was manufactured in mid December of 1939 (serial number 1004654 is verified in the PR records as, 12/6/1939).  Is it a Standard Rifle with a No. 98C bolt peep sight?  The vast majority of the Model 65 rifles found in the 1002300  - 1006470 serial number range were made in 218 Bee.

I am the person also surveying the Model 64 rifles;

1. Serial number

2. Caliber

3. Variation (Standard or Deer Rifle)

4. Barrel length

5. If pre-WW II, which style of upper tang marking.

6. Rear sight configuration (e.g. 22-H Bbl, Lyman No 56 receiver, or No. 98A Bolt-peep) .

Thus far, I have recorded 2,533 Model 64s, with 221 of them in 219 Zipper.

Bert

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