Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Model 61 Muzzle Face
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2865
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
September 30, 2016 - 5:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hello guys,

The Model 61 and Model 1892 research surveys continue to expand even after +5 years of working on them. Somebody will ask a little question and then I start getting emails asking more about something I have not been tracking and before long the Excel spread sheet has a new column and I am scrambling to play catch up and capture more data on rifles that I have not looked at in years. So I need some help regarding the muzzle face on the non octagon barreled Model 61’s. This should be limited to the first 50,000 rifles based on what data I have so far. Is the muzzle face cut perfectly flat on your rifle(s) or is it crowned? Please list your SN and the style of muzzle.

Muzzle-Rounded-1.jpgImage EnlargerFlat-Muzzle.jpgImage Enlarger

Thanks so much for the help
Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1301
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 18, 2017 - 3:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Michael,

I have a pre-war round barrel model 61, s,l,lr serial number 37520 and the muzzle is cut flat, and in the white.

Al

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2865
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 19, 2017 - 9:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

tionesta1 said
Michael,

I have a pre-war round barrel model 61, s,l,lr serial number 37520 and the muzzle is cut flat, and in the white.

Al  

Thanks Al,

I already had the rifle in my data but did not have the muzzle face information.  I appreciate it!

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Location: 32000' +
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1863
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
4
August 30, 2017 - 11:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hi Michael,

Model 61 serial #38997, round barrel, S, L & LR, flat muzzle face, short forend.  Barrel date is “38”.

It is British import marked and you probably already saw it on Gunbroker but I thought the barrel date might help.

Stay dry.

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2865
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
August 31, 2017 - 12:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

JWA said
Hi Michael,

Model 61 serial #38997, round barrel, S, L & LR, flat muzzle face, short forend.  Barrel date is “38”.

It is British import marked and you probably already saw it on Gunbroker but I thought the barrel date might help.

Stay dry.

Best Regards,  

Thanks for the barrel date.  I had seen the rifle on GB.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 330
Member Since:
December 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
September 1, 2017 - 3:13 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Michael,

SN 38651 and 39637 are standard S, L and LR short fore end models and both have the flat muzzle.  I think you have the rest of the info in your data base.

Jolly

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2865
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
September 1, 2017 - 10:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Jolly Bill said
Michael,

SN 38651 and 39637 are standard S, L and LR short fore end models and both have the flat muzzle.  I think you have the rest of the info in your data base.

Jolly  

I got both of those JB.  Thanks so much.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 507
Member Since:
March 12, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
September 1, 2017 - 4:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Not sure if this will help, but factory drawing for barrel show’s a revision date of October 14th, 1938 for the change from flat face to crowned muzzle.

Steve

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2865
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
September 1, 2017 - 6:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

seewin said
Not sure if this will help, but factory drawing for barrel show’s a revision date of October 14th, 1938 for the change from flat face to crowned muzzle.

Steve  

Hello Steve,

Yes indeed that is a help.  Do you have a PDF file of that drawing that you could pass on to me please?

Thanks so much.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12940
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
September 1, 2017 - 8:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

seewin said
Not sure if this will help, but factory drawing for barrel show’s a revision date of October 14th, 1938 for the change from flat face to crowned muzzle.

Steve  

Steve,

Does the factory drawing specify the Model 61, or all Winchester barrels?  Based on my surveys of the Model 64 and Model 71, that is the approximate date where they also went from uncrowned to crowned muzzles.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Location: 32000' +
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1863
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
11
September 1, 2017 - 10:36 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I suspect that there will be a range of revision dates for the various models during that mid-late 1930’s era.  The Model 67 was introduced in 1934 already with a 1/8″ muzzle crown, as was the Model 69 in 1935 whereas the Model 60A Target which was introduced in 1932 maintained a flat crown until the end of production in 1939.  Just from my observations it seems as if the new .22 designs after 1933 came with a crowned muzzle and Winchester then worked backwards through the line to update the existing models at their convenience (which spanned a number of years).

Just my thoughts.

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
September 1, 2017 - 10:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I just put this 61 in the survey, the muzzle is not crowned, it is perfectly flat.  Hope this helps. 

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
September 1, 2017 - 11:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I guess it would help to give you the serial # of my 61.  It is #39756.  It has a flat muzzle.  I was reading the Winchester handbook by Bill West and it said that 61’s with serials under 35000 had the 11 groove slide handles and they went to the 17 groove handles after that.  Mine is a much higher number than that and has the 11 groove handle.  Of course in 1939 they made 6200+ guns that year.  

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 507
Member Since:
March 12, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
September 1, 2017 - 11:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

 

 

Bert H. said

Steve,

Does the factory drawing specify the Model 61, or all Winchester barrels?  Based on my surveys of the Model 64 and Model 71, that is the approximate date where they also went from uncrowned to crowned muzzles.

Bert  

Bert, it was a model specific (model 61) barrel drawing dated 1930.

Steve

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2865
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
September 2, 2017 - 12:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Winchester nut said
I guess it would help to give you the serial # of my 61.  It is #39756.  It has a flat muzzle.  I was reading the Winchester handbook by Bill West and it said that 61’s with serials under 35000 had the 11 groove slide handles and they went to the 17 groove handles after that.  Mine is a much higher number than that and has the 11 groove handle.  Of course in 1939 they made 6200+ guns that year.    

The change from the short to long slide handle is much closer to SN 41000 on the Short Long and Long Rifle configured rifles.  BUT, The OB .22 WRF change at an earlier SN.  

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 628
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
1873man: 5264
clarence: 4553
TXGunNut: 3984
Chuck: 3664
steve004: 3281
twobit: 2865
Maverick: 2036
JWA: 1862
Big Larry: 1808
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 16
Topics: 10630
Posts: 91744

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1471
Members: 11706
Moderators: 3
Admins: 3
Navigation