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94 Extra light numbers?
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August 18, 2023 - 1:04 pm
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Is anyone doing a survey on 1894 extra light rifles(pre Ser 353,999) or suggest a source. Looking for how many were full octagon, had crescent butts & approximately how many had dovetail for front sight’s & not the later ramp. I downloaded Bob Renneberg’s 3rd edition which is a wealth of information but wasn’t specific to the numbers I’m looking for. 

Thanks 

RickC

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August 18, 2023 - 4:35 pm
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Rick,

I am not aware of anyone trying to survey just the Extra Light Weight rifles, especially those that are letterable.  I have casually observed them0 through the years, and as such, I can tell you that the number of ELW rifles with a full octagon barrel is a relatively small number as compared to the entire ELW rifle production.  The ARMAX survey did not breakdown the several different Rifle variations, or the barrel types used for all of the rifle variations, or the butt plate types used for just the ELW.  That would have required an extensive amount of added time and work to record all of those details.

Having said all of the, 100% of the ELW rifles that I have observed with an octagon barrel always have a shallow dovetail cut for the front sight.  Conversely, nearly all of the 1/2 octagon and full round barrels have a silver soldered front sight base lug (not an actual ramp style).  The black hard rubber butt plate was by far the most common type installed on the ELW rifles, followed by a steel shotgun butt plate, with the standard crescent rifle butt plate being the least common.

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August 18, 2023 - 4:54 pm
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Hi Bert,

Thank you for the reply. I couldn’t ask for any more information than that and appreciate the response.

RickC

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August 18, 2023 - 5:41 pm
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Bert H. said
Rick,

I am not aware of anyone trying to survey just the Extra Light Weight rifles, especially those that are letterable.  I have casually observed then through the years, and as such, I can tell you that the number of ELW rifles with a full octagon barrel is a relatively small number as compared to the entire ELW rifle production.  The ARMAX survey did not breakdown the several different Rifle variations, or the barrel types used for all of the rifle variations, or the butt plate types used for just the ELW.  That would have required an extensive amount of added time and work to record all of those details.

Having said all of the, 100% of the ELW rifles that I have observed with an octagon barrel always have a shallow dovetail cut for the front sight.  Conversely, nearly all of the 1/2 octagon and full round barrels have a silver soldered front sight base lug (not an actual ramp style).  The black hard rubber butt plate was by far the most common type installed on the ELW rifles, followed by a steel shotgun butt plate, with the standard crescent rifle butt plate being the least common.

Bert

  

I have seen at least one of these in a 38-55 – ELW with an octagon barrel – and that barrel dovetail cut looked like it must be perilously close to the grooves Confused

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August 18, 2023 - 9:33 pm
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Steve, I read Winchester learned very quickly that the 38–55 and 32–40 calibers were exactly what you describe. It wasn’t as concerning for the 25–35 and 30–30. And if it was a half magazine, it eliminated the notch under the barrel for the lever cam hump on the full mags. 
I recently acquired a 94 extra light, 26” octagon half magazine take down, deluxe wood pistol grip with H checkering & crescent butt. DOM 1899(Ser 66,000). Will post photos as soon as I get a chance. Lettered exact. Seems like it’s less common than other extra lights. 

RickC

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August 18, 2023 - 10:01 pm
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RickC said
Steve, I read Winchester learned very quickly that the 38–55 and 32–40 calibers were exactly what you describe. It wasn’t as concerning for the 25–35 and 30–30. And if it was a half magazine, it eliminated the notch under the barrel for the lever cam hump on the full mags. 

I recently acquired a 94 extra light, 26” octagon half magazine take down, deluxe wood pistol grip with H checkering & crescent butt. DOM 1899. Will post photos as soon as I get a chance. Lettered exact. Seems like it’s less common than other extra lights. 

RickC

  Rick – Sounds like a very cool rifle. I’m looking forward to the photos.  I don’t think you mentioned the caliber?

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August 18, 2023 - 10:17 pm
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It’s 30WCF. That & 32WS is all I collect now. Sent my 32–40 model 1894 made an 1897 to my son in Calgary and sold my 38–55 and 25–35 src’s. Probably not the wisest decision as a collector, but as you know Steve, I have a soft spot for the 32 special like you and 30-30 is now a close second. ??

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August 19, 2023 - 1:36 am
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The extra light octagon barrels seem to be few and far between.  I had been looking for a decent one for quite some time and finally came across this one awhile back and had to have it.  The full octagon and full magazine combo looks pretty cool at the muzzle end.

Don

P1070940.JPGImage EnlargerP1070941.JPGImage EnlargerP1070942.JPGImage EnlargerP1070944.JPGImage EnlargerP1070946.JPGImage EnlargerP1070948.JPGImage EnlargerP1070949.JPGImage EnlargerP1070951.JPGImage EnlargerP1070953.JPGImage EnlargerP1070955.JPGImage EnlargerP1070956.JPGImage EnlargerP1070957.JPGImage EnlargerP1070959.JPGImage Enlarger

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August 19, 2023 - 4:57 am
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Very nice example Don. Thank you for sharing. 

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August 19, 2023 - 3:00 pm
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Don – very nice rifle.  The photo of the muzzle end was most interesting.  In just looking at it, and the proportions involved, it sure looks like a .375 caliber hole rather than a .30 caliber hole.  I looked at that photo first and was surprised when I learned it was a .30 WCF.  Of particular interest, the angle of your photo allowed me to roughly line up the top of the bore with the bottom of the dovetail.  It sure didn’t seem there was much metal there.  And then, I imagined if it had been a .375 hole instead Confused

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August 19, 2023 - 4:54 pm
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Here is an extra light in 38-55. Not much metal for DSC5647.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5648.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5649.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5650.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5651.JPGImage Enlargerthat dovetail but gun is very accurate

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August 19, 2023 - 5:19 pm
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Here’s a link where I posted some observations from my short rifle survey. One of the items was the front sights dovetailed on the ELWs. They were found out to about 1902 on the round barrels before they transitioned to the ramps on all of them. All the octagon barrels were dovetailed, as Bert mentioned. 

Early 1894 Rifle Fun Facts – Short Rifle Survey Observations | Winchester Research Surveys | Forum | Winchester CollectorWinchester Collector

I agree with Bert and others that the octagon barrel ELWs are a fairly scarce variation and should be considered a good find if you have one. 

#56873

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August 19, 2023 - 5:21 pm
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deerhunter said
The extra light octagon barrels seem to be few and far between.  I had been looking for a decent one for quite some time and finally came across this one awhile back and had to have it.  The full octagon and full magazine combo looks pretty cool at the muzzle end.

Don

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Forgot about this one, …………. what a great rifle, Don. Thanks for posting again. 

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August 19, 2023 - 5:23 pm
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antler1 said
Here is an extra light in 38-55. Not much metal for DSC5647.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5648.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5649.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5650.JPGImage EnlargerDSC5651.JPGImage Enlargerthat dovetail but gun is very accurate

  

Pat 

Thats a killer configuration ……. think I perused that one at Greeley. Good luck to anyone trying to find a twin to it. A rare beauty for sure. Thanks for the pics. 

Did I get that in my survey? …… can’t remember……….what’s the number?

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August 19, 2023 - 5:28 pm
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Yes you have it

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August 19, 2023 - 8:10 pm
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To my eyes, when I look at the photo of the bore of the .30 WCF of the rifle Don posted, and the bore of the .38-55 Antler just posted, they look the same.

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August 20, 2023 - 12:30 am
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Probably the difference between 24 inch 30 caliber and 22 inch 38 caliber

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August 21, 2023 - 8:31 pm
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Photos as promised:

 

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August 21, 2023 - 8:36 pm
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The lighting was overcast then sunny so blotchy pics. Oil residue showing also but you can see it has the notch under the barrel for the cam on the back of the takedown lever. Couldn’t download a photo of the entire gun on the first reply above.  

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August 21, 2023 - 11:47 pm
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Rick,

Awesome & Gorgeous Fancy ELW rifle!  That bore looks very promising as well Cool

Bert

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