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M97 Riot/Trench gun barrel grooves
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May 11, 2023 - 1:23 am
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Hello! Looking for a bit of information, recently I’ve been looking at model 1897 riot/trench gun and I’m a bit thrown by the machining on the barrel. Just for information the martial markings on the receiver all appear to be correct given the date of the shotgun. As the machining:

1. The shotgun has the three grooves cut beneath the barrel for the heat shield mount. They appear to be machined and one appears to be blued like the rest of the barrel, however all three are slightly marred from the screw from the mount.

2. The original sight for the riot gun has been shaved down, however it does look very professionally done and matches the contour of the rest of the barrel. There’s no machining marks around it and you can’t feel it separate from the surface of the barrel

3. about 1.5-1.75” back from the sight bead there is a little divot in line with the sight, that appears to be raw metal and maybe slightly find with a dark material. This was covered by the heat shield before I removed it

4. about 3” back from the farthest back groove for the heat shield, there is another cut in the barrel, though it has a notch in middle, it is not a complete cut like the grooves for the shield. I believe this for the original barrel band.

5. there is no barrel date stamp on the barrel as far as I could find. I did everything but remove the barrel from the extension to look for it.

if anyone has any thoughts on these marks I’d greatly appreciate any info.

thank you

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May 11, 2023 - 5:29 am
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Photos and the serial number of the shotgun would really help in determining what you have. 

Winchester did use some riot barrels for the last batch of WWII trench guns.  They filled in the bead sight hole on these riot barrels, and the ones I’ve seen had the notches cut in the barrel for the band.  These guns are mostly in the mid to high 950,xxx serial number range.    Could the cut(s) you see 3 inches back from the last transverse groove actually be the barrel band?    Again, photos would be most helpful.

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May 11, 2023 - 12:05 pm
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Tom D said
Photos and the serial number of the shotgun would really help in determining what you have. 

Winchester did use some riot barrels for the last batch of WWII trench guns.  They filled in the bead sight hole on these riot barrels, and the ones I’ve seen had the notches cut in the barrel for the takedown mechanism.  These guns are mostly in the mid to high 950,xxx serial number range.    Could the cut(s) you see 3 inches back from the last transverse groove actually be the takedown notches?    Again, photos would be most helpful.

  

Serial number is 924502. I apologize about the lack of photos, the guest account wouldn’t let me post them. I had emailed Bert on here and he confirmed the grooves are correct, I guess I was just more taken aback by the lack of the date stamp to my eyes and the odd little divot on the barrel.

Forgive my ignorance at I’m new to the world of 1897s, when you look down the barrel, is it normal to see the smallest ridges inside the barrel where the grooves for the heat shield mount were cut? On this one you can’t really feel them, but with a light you can faintly notice them

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May 12, 2023 - 4:28 am
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I made a mistake about the barrel notches and have edited my post above.  As you stated, they are for the barrel band.

That serial number (924502) is a pre-War shotgun.  At least its serial number was applied before the War.  It would not of left the factory with one of the barrels I discussed in my post above unless the receiver got hung up in production for almost two years.

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May 12, 2023 - 10:40 pm
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I see, thank you for the info! One final question, what parts are actually serialized to the gun? I’m use to K98s where most parts have the last two digits stamped on them matching them to the gun. Are M97s like this or is it just the receiver and extension that are serialized?

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May 13, 2023 - 12:28 am
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Only the receiver and extension have serial numbers.

There should be a barrel date on the underside of the barrel near the receiver.  It’s sometimes hard to see because the mag tube is in the way.

Does the barrel have a small ordnance bomb on top near the receiver?

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May 13, 2023 - 12:37 am
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Tom D said
Only the receiver and extension have serial numbers.

There should be a barrel date on the underside of the barrel near the receiver.  It’s sometimes hard to see because the mag tube is in the way.

Does the barrel have a small ordnance bomb on top near the receiver?

  

I see I see. Yes it does. Bert here was very nice and let me email him photos of the shotgun (I really ought to make an account if I’m gonna start collecting lol) and to his knowledge the receiver mark is correct for an early receiver (U.S. with no ordnance bomb) and the barrel markings are all correct for the barrel (correct proofs, ordnance mark, address lines, 2 3/4 Cham CYL etc) it just is missing a barrel date. I took the tube off and everything to try to find the date, no scrub marks where it could have been removed. The receiver and extension both are matching.

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