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I stopped to see an old collector friend yesterday. He’s been selling off his 40 year collection over the last couple of years, many of which now live in my safe. I bought a couple of guns (as usual 😂), but before I left he reached into the back of his safe and pulled out an M1 carbine that I didn’t know he had. I know nothing about them, but I was immediately interested anyway. Dangerous, yes…. I know. He told me to take it home with me, and if I want it, to send him $1500.00, if not, bring it back. Pretty nice arrangement actually.
I’ll post some pictures. I’m sure the stock has been redone, but otherwise not sure what is correct or not. I’d like opinions, and wonder if $1500.00 is a fair price.
Stock has had some oil finish applied, but that’s less of a concern than parts replacement during post-war refurbishments–& few M1 rifles or carbines escaped return to arsenals for overhaul some time in their histories. I see only one acceptance cartouche, sanded down, which is a good sign. But it takes a real US military expert like Big Larry to pick out any possible parts replacements. Still, with the WW II sling, I think $1500 is well under current retail. (Wish I could forget when you could buy them by the barrel for few hundred!)
Yeah, back in the 60’s they were $20 from the DCM. I have been out of US militaria for several years now. I just gave a 1943 Inland to a friend, unaltered, I had turned down a couple offers of $3,500 for. I still have an original M1A1 Paratrooper that is going to my Grandson. I would need my book to asses this rifle. Book is gone too. Good luck with this carbine. Big Larry
This is a relatively early carbine. First batch of Winchester serial numbers was 1,000,000 to 1,349,999. I’ll have to look up the manufacture date. The only thing I see negative about the carbine is that the stock has been sanded and refinished. You can see some of the sanded ordinance wheel cartouche. This one may have had a WRA/GHD cartouche too? The rear sight is early. The upper hand guard is early and has only 2 holes as apposed to the later 4 holes. What I can see of the sling it looks correct. You can see the crimping on the metal tip. Post war did not look like this. They were not crimped. Take a look on the oiler and see if it has a letter stamped on it. Sometimes the oiler and magazine were supplied by the same contractor.
Edit: I looked through the 4 books I have on the carbine and none of them have serial number lists?
That’s a nice early one, as stated above, the wood is refinished, no Arsenal rebuild marks. Most carbines were rebuilt after the war and again if it saw service in Korea, a bunch were converted to M2 and have the updated potbelly stocks to withstand full auto. I think 1500 is a good price, I would grab it
Chuck said
Take a look on the oiler and see if it has a letter stamped on it. Sometimes the oiler and magazine were supplied by the same contractor.
Here’s a pic of the marking on the oiler.
Anyone know where I can find the manufacture date?
Thanks everyone for the replies.
The early ones should have a barrel date. The production figures in Larry Ruth’s book “War Baby” puts it in July 1943
George:
Just Google it – It is a Winchester mark.
“Oiler Markings
–Most post WWII Oilers were not marked.
–International Silver Co. Made Oilers for the Prime M1 Carbine Contractors and marked them individually for each Contractor.
–Inland Marked: II
–Winchester Marked: SW, IW”
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Rick Hill said
George:Just Google it – It is a Winchester mark.
“Oiler Markings
–Most post WWII Oilers were not marked.
–International Silver Co. Made Oilers for the Prime M1 Carbine Contractors and marked them individually for each Contractor.
–Inland Marked: II
–Winchester Marked: SW, IW”
Thanks Rick & Others!
Here are a couple of more random pics. By the way, I told him I’ll take it.
From what my novice eye picks up:
SN is a block of Winchester’s (1,000,000-1,349,999 May- Sep 1942) between Inland and Underwood.
Type 1 rear sight 150/300 yards
Most likely a type II bolt but would need to see under the extractor
Type I Winchester front sight: unmarked and ground flat or slightly lower behind sight blade
Type 1A Barrel Band (wider sling swivel than type 1)
Type II safety implemented early ’43 (uncheckered to save costs)
Type II Magazine catch introduced in early ’44
Type II Winchester stock (oval oiler cut out & W marked in the sling cutout)
Early Winchester butt plate
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rwsem said
From what my novice eye picks up:SN is a block of Winchester’s (1,000,000-1,349,999 May- Sep 1942) between Inland and Underwood.
Type 1 rear sight 150/300 yards
Most likely a type II bolt but would need to see under the extractor
Type I Winchester front sight: unmarked and ground flat or slightly lower behind sight blade
Type 1A Barrel Band (wider sling swivel than type 1)
Type II safety implemented early ’43 (uncheckered to save costs)
Type II Magazine catch introduced in early ’44
Type II Winchester stock (oval oiler cut out & W marked in the sling cutout)
Early Winchester butt plate
Thanks!
I’m not sure what any of the Type 1, type II, type 1A stuff means in regard to this carbine. Like I said, I don’t know much about military stuff. The only other thing that I’ve owned was an 1896 KRAG Carbine, and I traded it for 3 Winchesters 😂
I get the feeling that this carbine is largely correct, and that I made a decent purchase. That makes me happy because I’ve bought a few Ooops guns over the years for sure!
George, I had Craig Riesch, co author with Joe Poyer on a Carbine book, look at the pictures. He said the barrelled action and upper hand guard are earlier than the stock. This stock should not have the WRA/GHD cartouche. Like Ronald said the mag release is later than the barreled action. The front barrel band may be newer. I can’t tell if the sling is early or late? What I call the buckle is thinner than the later ones.
The different Types designate part changes. So earliest guns would have Type I parts and as parts were changed throughout production the designation would change.
Thanks for the info Chuck!
For those who are interested, here’s the KRAG Carbine that I had. I bought it from my next door neighbor. His grandfather owned it, and he served in 34th Michigan Infantry Co. M in the Spanish American war, as well as other campaigns. He was a career soldier for sure. The guy that I traded with seemed really excited to get the carbine. Here’s a few pics of the gun and the soldier.
That’s a nice M1, $1500 is a good price, if not under a little, but I know you already have it anyways, but well done! That’s a nice Krag too, especially with the provenance to go with it, very cool.
Thanks Chuck & Jeremy,
I traded the KRAG for 3 of the rifles in this lot…. He was happy, and I was happy also….
From the top: #2…#4….#5…
November 7, 2015
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[email protected] said
Thanks Chuck & Jeremy,I traded the KRAG for 3 of the rifles in this lot…. He was happy, and I was happy also….
From the top: #2…#4….#5…
Rather impressive stable of rimfires, George! Nicely done and thanks for posting the pics!
Mike
If you traded one Krag for three of what’s in that pic, you did extra well. Those slide actions are NICE. 
Jeremy P said
If you traded one Krag for three of what’s in that pic, you did extra well. Those slide actions are NICE.
I did….. He wanted the Krag real bad!
I guess it’s kind of a rare variant carbine being an 1896 that’s actually stamped 1895….and the pictures don’t really do it justice. The bluing on the barrel was high condition.
Plus the connection to the soldier.
I did contact the Springfield Research Service back when I got it maybe 10 years ago, and they could not tie the gun to actual service, but I think their database like others are a constant work in progress.
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