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$4K too much for a Win M1 Garand?
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October 14, 2022 - 5:25 pm
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Win94.jpgImage EnlargerHi Folks,

Have a handful of questions and some pics to share of some hand-me-down rifles we just received via family. But going to start with this, a sighting of a Win M1 Garand 30-06 that looks to be in great condition, six digit serial #151763, all Win parts over at Collector’s Firearms. Price seems awfully steep, but I’m no expert. 

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Peter

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October 14, 2022 - 6:09 pm
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If it is all correct 4k may not be too much.  Winchesters bring a premium.  I am not an expert, especially on an early gun.  I am not seeing a cartouche on the left side of the stock?  There probably should be a circle P on the underside of the grip. I don’t know if the rear sight is correct.  It is different than my later guns.  In the later guns the forward barrel band has perpendicular hash marks on the barrel band.  Winchester did not do more than what the contract called for and didn’t polish out the machine marks.  The buckle on the sling is correct for a WW II gun.

The trigger assembly can be easily removed and all parts should be Winchester marked.  I would also like to see pictures of the butt plate.  You need to be assured that after final inspection you can get your money back.  I really am not sure about this stock????

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October 14, 2022 - 6:48 pm
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Peter Kotsonis said Price seems awfully steep, but I’m no expert. 
  

Pete,  You’d better make yourself an expert (or find one you can trust, which excludes Collectors!) if you’re interested in M1s, because no other US service rifle has ever been subject to so many modifications, rebuilds, general tampering.  And to add to the entertainment, fakery is rife in US militaria–every armory cartouche & stamping die has been reproduced & is in the hands of the fakers. Best show your photos in one of the specialist US military sites.  Do not trust Collectors to know what they’re talking about on a subject as complicated as the M1!

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October 14, 2022 - 10:28 pm
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Hey, I resemble that.   Big Larry

 

WIN-13-001.jpgImage EnlargerWIN-13-004.jpgImage Enlarger

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October 15, 2022 - 1:02 am
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Pete,  Make Big Larry an offer he can’t refuse, & have no fear:  he has all the “right stuff.”

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October 15, 2022 - 1:52 am
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I think I will keep that Garand. It was a gift to me by a good friend. It is 100% correct and my last one. It is a WIN-13 and in great condition. Big Larry

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October 15, 2022 - 2:16 am
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Big Larry said
It is 100% correct and my last one.

  

Larry,  I’m still waiting for my FIRST one!  But not holding my breath.

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October 15, 2022 - 2:25 am
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There was a very good Winchester M1 Garand at the Cody show…and I didn’t give it a second look. If you don’t know what you’re looking at find someone who does or spend the time to know what you’re gazing upon. Fakery is why I avoid 70’s and milsurp…but I’d love a nice M1!

 

Mike

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October 15, 2022 - 2:27 am
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Chuck said
I would also like to see pictures of the butt plate…

  

I’ve requested a photo of the butt plate, thought the same thing. I’ve purchased firearms remotely from Collector’s Firearms before, very legitimate location from what I’ve found. But it was odd they didn’t include a photo of the butt plate.

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October 15, 2022 - 2:28 am
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clarence said Pete,  You’d better make yourself an expert (or find one you can trust, which excludes Collectors!) if you’re interested in M1s, because no other US service rifle has ever been subject to so many modifications, rebuilds, general tampering…
  

This alone is incredible feedback. Thank you!!!

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October 15, 2022 - 3:50 pm
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TXGunNut said
There was a very good Winchester M1 Garand at the Cody show…and I didn’t give it a second look. If you don’t know what you’re looking at find someone who does or spend the time to know what you’re gazing upon. Fakery is why I avoid 70’s and milsurp…but I’d love a nice M1!

 

Mike

  

I think that Garand was a 100% WIN-13 and went for $3,000. A very good price for a nice Winchester. I would not sell mine for that. After I sold off my US Martial Arms collection, the values exploded. Glad I kept a few.   Big LarryM103-Tank.jpgImage Enlarger  Big 120 mm military gun.

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October 15, 2022 - 9:39 pm
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Peter Kotsonis said

Chuck said

I would also like to see pictures of the butt plate…

  

I’ve requested a photo of the butt plate, thought the same thing. I’ve purchased firearms remotely from Collector’s Firearms before, very legitimate location from what I’ve found. But it was odd they didn’t include a photo of the butt plate.

  

You need a picture of the underside of the buttplate too but you may not get one. Winchesters are marked S2.  A good picture of the front barrel band would be nice too.  I talked to my friend about this gun and I am sending him the listing so he can look at the pictures.  He really did not like the fact that there are no visible cartouches.  Stocks can cost $800 or more.  He doesn’t like the fact that the rear sight does not have the locking bar.  The sling could be correct.  They did use the khaki colored slings early on before the more common OD green.  I’ll let you know more after he looks at the posting. Take a look at Larry’s gun. He shows what the cartouches look like and one side of the rear sight.

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October 15, 2022 - 11:13 pm
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Chuck said

He really did not like the fact that there are no visible cartouches.  Stocks can cost $800 or more.  

On any US service rifle, the correct cartouches “make” the rifle–they are an essential part of its history!  Of course, like I said before, the fakers (damn them all!) have all the tools they need to add fake markings, & sometimes reveal themselves by adding marks that shouldn’t be on an original stock.  Best thing to be said about this gun is that a replacement stock was added by someone who didn’t take the trouble to fake the cartouches.  How an M1 with a non-armory replaced stock can be worth 4 Gs, let the “experts” at Collectors explain.

And even the $800 stock won’t be original to that particular M1!

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October 16, 2022 - 1:44 am
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“Original” Garands are very hard to come by. My friend, the guy who gave me the WIN-13, just had his house burn down, with some of the finest Garands extant. Some early and some late like a minty  JLG cartouched Korean war rifle. An SA over SPG pre war was in his collection too. He had just picked up 6 WW2, no nonsense Garands too. I had a chance to buy into some of these rifles, but I am no longer interested in them. They were cheap and I could have made $$$ on them. Too late now. The fire took care of that.    Big Larry

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October 16, 2022 - 2:06 am
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11B826C5-CD1D-42BE-87CF-5002CE1FE916.jpegImage EnlargerButt plate pic sent today, attached FYI.

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October 17, 2022 - 2:07 am
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Peter Kotsonis said
11B826C5-CD1D-42BE-87CF-5002CE1FE916.jpegImage EnlargerButt plate pic sent today, attached FYI.

  

Here is my friends reply.

Chuck: 

The problems I notice with the WRA M1 are: 

The sights are 1947 post war replacements and the peep is not WRA. 

The wrong rear band, it should be grooved. 

No cartouche which should be WRA/RS with an ordnance wheel. The profile of the stock doesn’t look like a WRA stock. 

The early S/N looks like one of the educational rifles which had a solid Butt plate, no door. 

There may be more wrong but that is all you can see from the photos. 

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October 17, 2022 - 9:28 am
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Chuck said Here is my friends reply.: The problems I notice with the WRA M1 are: The sights are 1947 post war replacements and the peep is not WRA. The wrong rear band, it should be grooved. No cartouche which should be WRA/RS with an ordnance wheel. The profile of the stock doesn’t look like a WRA stock. The early S/N looks like one of the educational rifles which had a solid Butt plate, no door. There may be more wrong but that is all you can see from the photos. 

 Ok, ok, some trivial problems…but then the gun is only 4 Gs!  What, you expect perfection?

What did I say about the trustworthiness of Collectors???

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October 17, 2022 - 7:11 pm
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Here is a picture of what a Winchester band looks like.

Garand-Barrel-Band.jpgImage Enlarger

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October 17, 2022 - 10:39 pm
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Chuck said
Here is a picture of what a Winchester band looks like.

Garand-Barrel-Band.jpgImage Enlarger

  

WOW, excellent pic and info! just found out that my Winchester Garand maybe an arsenal rebuild because of that pic. Frown

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October 17, 2022 - 11:14 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said

WOW, excellent pic and info! just found out that my Winchester Garand maybe an arsenal rebuild because of that pic.

  

Wouldn’t be surprising, most were, but I’ll bet you didn’t pay 4 Gs for it!  Should be an inspection mark indicating where it was rebuilt.

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