The 33 WCF and Redding shell holders|Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloading|Forum|Winchester Collector

An update. Gentlemen, thank you all for your helpful dope. 

At the range this morning,  a knowledgeable club member examined the headstamp of the 33WCF cartridges I was shooting and identified the brass as Bertram — pointing out the Kangaroo in logo. 

The Bertram brass is too thick and wide for the Redding #18. However, the #18 easily accommodates new Starline 40-65 brass and  Remington 45/70 cartridge from a fresh box of factory 405 grain Core Lokt ammo.it  

Don says he’s using Redding’s #23 Shellholder to hold 33WCF cases, although it is listed for the 45 Colt and modifications thereof.  I use RCBS dies to reload 45 Colt so I’ll see if it’s shellholder will hold the 33 Bertram brass.

I am short of time this week but will do some photography and deliver some dope soon. 

First order of business will be developing a practice load with the Rimrock cast lead on hand, assuming the barrel.is not too rough.  I have a bore scope but i’d rather see what the barrel.actually does with live ammo.  Friend Tom’s jacketed softnose  hunting ammunition is pretty spicy for practice and feels like the medicine for a Brontosaurus – and a big one at that.  I put all three of those into a coffee can size group at 50 yards but it was obvious the former owner and I have different eyes. I’ll need to dial the tang sight a bit as soon as I have enough ammo made up to see what’s what.  I’m saving the last three rounds of Tom’s gift as a chronographed exemplar of a serious hunting load, except I’ll use the Hawk bullet 450 Fuller has already proved out with my rifle. 

Good times ahead!

oldcrankyyankee said
Bill, Those loads were a gift to me and do very well out of my 33 deluxe. They will print about 2.5 ” at 50 yards. Like I said they are a good hunting load. I had the paper with the load info for them but currently it’s MIA, my brain can’t keep tract of all my stuff lately.
I am not a reloader so i am finding it interesting about the rim dimensions on the case I sent to you. As we are all aware the rim thickness is what sets the head space on these glorious old gals. One would think that if they where to think the bolt would not close, unless the locking bars are worn. Like I said earlier, they function fine in my deluxe, haven’t shot any of my other 33’s with them, so it is the only test case. But clearly they functioned well in yours too. I am sure you will figure it out soon enough. 
And while we’re hear talking 33’s, thought that M64lvr would like this one. It’s one of my favorites. sorry I don’t have pics of my other 33’s
  

Tom,  we’ve got houseguests for the week and my life is not my own until Monday. But the 3 rounds of your ammunition all.grouped well for me at 50 yards. Those were the first three rounds I ever fired out of this rifle, using Ridge”s tang sight settings, so I didn’t manage 2.5″, although I would have made a killing shot on even one of our small Central Texas Whitetails.  The point of impact withe the existing sight settings was the 8 ring around 10 o’clock.  Knowing that you’ve found the load a good hunting load, I want to chronograph the remaining three and use the resulting velocity as a target to achieve with necessarily different (and still available).bullets,likely the 200 grain Hawks Ridge has had such good results with. 

Right now I’m playing host and driving people around. As soon as I’m released from duty I’m going to dig my 45 Colt dies from the upstairs rubble and try the RCBS shellholder on the Bertram cases.. I suspect that will solve the problem and let me reload all of the brass you gave me with a practice load based on the 200 grain gas checked lead and a mild dose of 5744.

Well, I’m back.  Whereas Redding specifies its #18 shell holder for the cartridges based on the 45-70 case, Redding cross-references the RCBS #14 as the equivalent. I have both and this is what I’ve learned by experiment:

1. Both are a push fit for new Remington and Starline 45-70 brass, and also new Starline 40-65 and 45-90  brass.

2. The Redding #18 will not accommodate the Bertram 33 WCF brass, the rim of which is marginally too thick and of a slightly larger diameter than would allow the rim to enter the opening arc segment of the shell holder.

3. The RCBS #14 will accommodate the Bertram 33 WCF brass because it is made to more tolerant dimensions.

Conclusion: These particular Bertram brass cases were generously cupped, headed and drawn and made thicker to last. (I do need to check relative case capacities before loading a quantity of powder specified by a formula tested in thinner, higher volume brass.)

Tim,  Will do.  I’m engaged right now in moving a friend’s entire Star loading outfit, including the heavy bench he built for it, into my upstairs office/mancave. He is moving to assisted living and wants me to have it.  An engineer,  he built this bench for strength, not lightness. I had to hire another friend ‘s 20 year old bodybuilding son to get the 80 pound.top upstairs. 

This particular Star has been modified to use a Dillon motorized case feeder and comes with three toolheads and die sets for 44 magnum, 45 ACP,  9mm Para, .380 ACP, .38/357, and 5.56 NATO. A very generous gift. Its donor has loaded all my handgun ammunition for materials cost, for years and I’m enormously grateful for getting equipped to replicate the task.  I don’t cast bullets (yet) but a Star lubrisizer is included in the gift. Not sure what dies but will guess 45 ACP because the donor was an avid Bullseye and practical competitor. 

There is a steel plate reinforced part of the bench drilled for a Rockchucker,  where mine can be installed and remain. That’s where the 33 WCF ammo will be built.