Reloading for 218 Bee|Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloading|Forum|Winchester Collector

Steve,  I have never owned a Bee but do own a Model 92 rifle chambered in 25/20. I’ve reloaded for it with cast lead in the past. As long as I’ve stayed below about 1500 fs – easy to do with 86 grain bullets, leading has not been a problem. 

Because the Bee is just a necked down 25/20, I would suppose the same pistol powders – Unique worked for me– would serve. 

However, if you were looking for Hornet or better velocities, I think leading would be an insurmountable problem, even with copper gas checks. 

I would consult an older Speer manual to see if it doesn’t have a low velocity load for the Bee with lead. I’ll look myself.

Agreed but I think perhaps Steve was looking for a “turkey load” as opposed to a “turkey soup load” – for which nothing would beat the V-Max. 

Because centerfire rifles are legal in Texas (and I think in Washington, unless its beyond-description government has since banned it),  we’ve been able to throttle back the Hornet to cast lead velocities using medium low burn pistol powders like Unique and a slightly heavier than ordinary weight bullet. 

I can’t imagine that couldn’t be replicated in the slightly bigger case of the Bee. 

The slowest recipe I could find for the Bee is in Speer’s #13 but I don’t have any of the Lyman cast lead volumes.

Bert H. said

Zebulon said
Agreed but I think perhaps Steve was looking for a “turkey load” as opposed to a “turkey soup load” – for which nothing would beat the V-Max. 
Because centerfire rifles are legal in Texas (and I think in Washington, unless its beyond-description government has since banned it),  we’ve been able to throttle back the Hornet to cast lead velocities using medium low burn pistol powders like Unique and a slightly heavier than ordinary weight bullet. 
I can’t imagine that couldn’t be replicated in the slightly bigger case of the Bee. 
The slowest recipe I could find for the Bee is in Speer’s #13 but I don’t have any of the Lyman cast lead volumes.
  

The preferred method of dispatching Turkeys with either the 22 Hornet or 218 Bee is to shoot them in the head (decapitation).  My 22 Hornets are capable of shooting the head off of a Turkey out to 100-yds.  My preferred bullet/load choice is the 35-grain V-Max with 12-grains of Lil Gun powder.  It chronographs @3,250 fps.
I will look through my old reloading manuals to see if any light 218 Bee loads are listed.
Bert
  

In Texas it is considered bad manners to shoot our Río Grande gobblers at 100 yards,  somewhat akin to shooting a Texas Ranger in the back.  Proper etiquette is to call one in to your decoy set,  which should be put out not further than 15 to 25 yards, depending on terrain. The shot is taken when he is  fanning or strutting — and his head is never motionless. A rifle shot at a moving head is too likely to blow his beak off, upon which he will run into the brush and suffer until the coyotes get him. A 1500 fs 22 slug on the butte of a wing or the base of  the neck is more sure and humane. I have done it with my S&W 27 loaded with 148 grain wadcutters at 750 fs, with no loss of edible meat. 

Fun with a Hornet:

My hunting experience has been limited to deer, Rio Grande turkeys and other game birds, and hogs. Long but narrow.

Of all those hunts, the first time I actually called in a big [20+ lbs] longbeard and his harem late one afternoon, was the best in a lifetime. First came the hens, who trotted up to my decoy. Nothing for a couple of minutes. And then a long shadow, followed by Himself, passing by me not more than 10-15 feet away.

I had in my hands a scoped Anschutz Hornet. My plan had been to shoot when a bird was at the decoy I’d set up at the edge of a tank [pond] 25 yards away. I hadn’t thought about one coming from the other direction. 

Even with the scope cranked down to 1.75X and him walking away from me with zero deflection, I couldn’t keep the crosshairs on that bobbling head.  

Finally, when he stopped to bend over and fan, I gave up and gave him the Texas heart shot. 

It didn’t touch the breast meat but it was the nastiest job of field dressing I ever had to do. 

For a while I wanted one of those Colt/Sauer drillings with a Hornet or .222 underbarrel. Until I picked one up. It had the handling characteristics of a medicine ball. 

The Anschutz has gone down the road but I won’t ever be without a Hornet, unless the Good Fairy gifts me with a Winchester Model 65 Bee. Until then a Ruger #1 Hornet will have to serve. 

If you found a good Browning 65, Steve, you weren’t buying downmarket at all, except for the label. I never could find one, although I did eventually get a Model 53 32/20 I could kick myself for selling. I might add I had my best gunsmith carefully drill and tap the receiver for a Redfield 70.  Told him I wanted it back with plug screws so I could see it looked like a factory job. It did and when I sold it nobody quibbled- all they saw was the burl walnut. I never sell my Redfield receiver sights. That one is now mounted on a Winchester brand Miroku 86 ELW. 

Where Browning messed up was listening to some dim bulb when designing the gaudy Grade II versions. I had an 1895 30/06 that would consistently do 3-shot 1.25″ groups with factory 150 grain CoreLokt. And I dont shoot well with barrel mounted iron sights. But it was a Grade II and it hurt my eyes. My lease partners laughed at me. So I sold it. 

By the time Browning built the 53, they’d gotten smarter and just upgraded the wood and added checkering and a good replica grip cap.

I still have two of the last Browning branded reproductions, a Model 12 20 gauge and a Model 42. They are permanent. 

Yes. I have learned this is a good place to buy. Members take care of their stuff and don’t want to see it damaged in transit, either. 

Steve-

One of my favorite loading manuals is Lyman’s 4th Edition Cast Bullet Handbook. It lists loads for Lyman’s 225438 (44gr GC) and their 225415 (55gr GC) and notes that IMR4198 produced uniform results. Starting/accuracy load listed for the 44gr bullet is 11.7 grs IMR4198 @ 2003fps, 55gr pill is 10.8grs IMR4198 for 1810 fps. I have no experience with this cartridge so use this data at your own risk! I don’t cast anything smaller than 30 caliber and seldom load anything in 22 caliber. A properly sized and lubed GC bullet in a good or preferably excellent bore should be able to handle velocities over 2000 fps, the Lyman CB manual lists loads for this cartridge approaching 2300fps but the lower loads look like the best starting point. 

Mike

slk said
I was able to pick up the lyman cast bullet book today. Not a lot of options for cast in 218 but i like it for a lot of the other calibers i cast for. 
Actually I guess you can expect there to be lots of loads for it. 
I use that same bullet mold 225438 for my 22 hornet loads. For some reason I have never been able to get good groups from a cast bullet in 22 hornet. I have a Rugger in 22 hornet that i can drive nails in with if i use the hornady varment bee jacketed bullet. The cast bullets to date have been quite disappointing for the hornet. 
  

As you probably know the first rule of cast bullets is know your bore size. An appropriate alloy for this velocity will likely not obturate to fill the bore so the bullet should be sized to bore size +.001 or .002″. Cast bullets in 22 caliber is a challenge best taken up by stubborn reloaders with very good casting skills and so far I haven’t ventured into that rabbit hole. I applaud your efforts but will likely observe your endeavor from the sidelines. 

Mike

PS: There’s a lot of very good information in your new book. Take the time to read the opening chapters, I think some of them are MLV’s best work.

MH

Good luck to you, Steve. I suspect casting for the 22 caliber is a very unforgiving task and I understand the 218 Bee can be a bit of a challenge. 

Mike