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January 21, 2007
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After having this old Lyman American press for about 15 years sitting in a box it was time to get it out and start reloading. 44-40 ammo in Canada is hard to come by but I have lots of brass and bullets. I’m using 17 grains of 5744 powder topped with a 200 grain XTP .430 Dia bullet. I’m getting good patterns out of all my rifles with this load. I have a 1st model 1873 rifle, 3rd model 1873 SRC, a 92 SRC and a Marlin 1889 and just picked up a 94 in 44-40 a week or so ago but haven’t gotten it out shooting yet but will very soon. I’m told this old press is dated back to the 60 or early 70s and fairly collectable now as well. Glad I can save some money reloading for the old girls !
November 7, 2015
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Good job! I’ve been loading over 40 years and I’m pretty sure I haven’t saved a dime yet. All my savings go into equipment upgrades, dies and components for additional types of cartridges and tools you haven’t heard of yet but will someday be on your “must buy” list. That’s OK, it’s been fun! Loading manuals are your best friend, pick a new one up every year or so.
Enjoy!
Mike
March 31, 2009
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“All my savings go into equipment upgrades, dies and components for additional types of cartridges and tools you haven’t heard of yet but will someday be on your “must buy” list.”
Same here. I have upgraded my loading equipment many times over the years. I still have my Rock Crusher but I have 3 other presses now too.
January 20, 2023
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WHERE DID YOU GET THE 5744? Both locally and online from Graf, Powder Valley and the other usual suspects, all I get is a maniacal laugh when I ask about ordering some.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Zebulon said
WHERE DID YOU GET THE 5744? Both locally and online from Graf, Powder Valley and the other usual suspects, all I get is a maniacal laugh when I ask about ordering some.
I can spare a pound or two. Help me remember and I’ll bring some to the club next time.
Mike
January 21, 2007
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Zebulon said
WHERE DID YOU GET THE 5744? Both locally and online from Graf, Powder Valley and the other usual suspects, all I get is a maniacal laugh when I ask about ordering some.
I’m up in Canada and certain powder is unabtainable and 5744 is one of them. I was lucky enough to find 2 lbs in a hardware store, 1 lbs at a gun shop that was ordered in for a customer long ago and never picked up and 4 lbs out of an 8 lbs jug at a show from a friend. Total of 7 lbs lol
March 31, 2009
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I bought some powder the other day and asked about 5744. He looked at his records and told me it had been over 3 years since they had it in stock. I just went through all my powder and made a buy, or hope to buy list. The IMR powders we use in our black powder cartridge rifles are getting real expensive and really hard to find. I hope Hodgdon will make something compatible. I was just reading an older Winchester Reloaders Manual looking up some burn rates. What caught my eye was the statement about not using burn rates to find a compatible powder.
November 7, 2015
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Chuck said
I bought some powder the other day and asked about 5744. He looked at his records and told me it had been over 3 years since they had it in stock. I just went through all my powder and made a buy, or hope to buy list. The IMR powders we use in our black powder cartridge rifles are getting real expensive and really hard to find. I hope Hodgdon will make something compatible. I was just reading an older Winchester Reloaders Manual looking up some burn rates. What caught my eye was the statement about not using burn rates to find a compatible powder.
I generally overbuy reloading components because I believe reloaders feel any “shortage” before and longer than consumers of factory ammo. My first “shortage” was over 30 years ago and I haven’t been caught short since. I’ve used IMR and Hodgdon 4198 powders and have some experience with 4350 powders from IMR, Hodgdon and Accurate. I’ve found no dramatic differences but there ARE differences. I’ll always start with a published load or a bit under. I’ll use burn rate charts to help understand why one published load may work better than another but it seems the more I learn about powder the less I know. The reason so many of our old standard powders are getting hard to find is the new powder technology that started gaining ground several years ago. As I understand it it’s a very different process and many of the powders we are comfortable with cannot or won’t be made with the new process. Some of the powders we are not seeing on the shelf today may soon be discontinued if they haven’t been already. It seems my powder dump is outperforming my equity and bond portfolio some days.
Mike
March 31, 2009
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TXGunNut said
Chuck said
I bought some powder the other day and asked about 5744. He looked at his records and told me it had been over 3 years since they had it in stock. I just went through all my powder and made a buy, or hope to buy list. The IMR powders we use in our black powder cartridge rifles are getting real expensive and really hard to find. I hope Hodgdon will make something compatible. I was just reading an older Winchester Reloaders Manual looking up some burn rates. What caught my eye was the statement about not using burn rates to find a compatible powder.
I generally overbuy reloading components because I believe reloaders feel any “shortage” before and longer than consumers of factory ammo. My first “shortage” was over 30 years ago and I haven’t been caught short since. I’ve used IMR and Hodgdon 4198 powders and have some experience with 4350 powders from IMR, Hodgdon and Accurate. I’ve found no dramatic differences but there ARE differences. I’ll always start with a published load or a bit under. I’ll use burn rate charts to help understand why one published load may work better than another but it seems the more I learn about powder the less I know. The reason so many of our old standard powders are getting hard to find is the new powder technology that started gaining ground several years ago. As I understand it it’s a very different process and many of the powders we are comfortable with cannot or won’t be made with the new process. Some of the powders we are not seeing on the shelf today may soon be discontinued if they haven’t been already. It seems my powder dump is outperforming my equity and bond portfolio some days.
Mike
We’ve been through 2 of these scenarios before. Stuff was hard to get and the prices went up and stayed up. But this one is worse. Powders are being dropped from the manufacturers list. I have 24 different powders in inventory, not including the 4 types of BP. 10 are IMR. There is some redundancy but I’d hate to loose any of these.
September 19, 2014
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Mike, Chuck and others. Yes, I, too have a fair amount on hand. But nowhere the numbers of varieties that Chuck mentions. I certainly have no intent of running out in what is left of my time on earth. But I tend to use what I am familiar with which means the old, less preferred (apparently) varieties. I have not rushed to the newer powders for the most part as I would have a new learning curve to become familiar with their performance. I did rush to get some IMR 8208 when it became available with the idea of enhancing the group sizes with my 6mmPPC. But I have yet to see good groups. I am reluctant to push the envelope but am told to “add more powder” with the 8208. Do I do so? Or do I stay with the old H322? Just an example of changing experiences and expectations. I also have a relatively large quantity of primers. Now I am always short on jacketed bullets! Cast is but a few hours away of resupply, like Mike says and does. My all time favorite shotgun powder was discontinued years back due to “lack of demand”. I demanded and couldn’t even get it back ordered for two years prior to it being discontinued. I dare say with most powders now being handled by one source here in the US, this is going to happen even more. I would like to see IMR being its own entity. Same with Hodgdon, Accurate, etc. WE as a whole are too dependent on foreign manufactured powders with the attendant choke points of importing the powders, regardless of name on the tub, can, etc. My opinions only. Tim
March 31, 2009
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tim tomlinson said
I did rush to get some IMR 8208 when it became available with the idea of enhancing the group sizes with my 6mmPPC. But I have yet to see good groups. I am reluctant to push the envelope but am told to “add more powder” with the 8208. Do I do so? Or do I stay with the old H322? Just an example of changing experiences and expectations.
Tim, I know you know this but many may not. In your case I’d do some testing.
This is not my process and is not the only way but it is how I learned to do it from a World Class Champion shooter. And no, I can’t shoot like a Champion.
With new rifles/barrels and with the use of a chronograph we do a powder ladder test increasing the charge in .3 grain increments. Shoot 2 to 3 bullets at each charge level. We do this until we see the first sign of pressure. Reading primers takes some time to learn what is really flat. With a push feed bolt that has a spring loaded ejector, pressure will cause the ejector to swipe marks on the face of the case head. A bolt that starts to get harder to lift is one of the key signs, especially with a control feed bolt that does not have the spring loaded ejector. When you find the first sign of pressure you stop and never shoot this hot. Along the way the chrono will show flat spots where the FPS doesn’t change much between 2 or more charge changes. These are the nodes you go back and test to determine which one gives you the best groups. We never shoot the node that is just below the pressure. If you are a target shooter you want the best groups but if a hunter you might give up some accuracy for the extra speed. After you find your powder charge test for the best bullet seating depth.
If you change the bullets, powder or primer it will change your groups. I will try to find a graph of a ladder test.
March 31, 2009
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Here is a graph that really doesn’t help much. He also has 3 more different graphs of the same shots. I do not believe in this much work especially when you don’t end up with usable data after firing so many shots. His charges are too close to each other and he doesn’t state the average fps for each group. The couple things it does show it that on the top line all the groups are hitting in the same area and not bouncing around. The bottom line went to heck.
31.7 is a good group and so is 32.1 and if the average for each groups is close to the same fps I’d test in the middle at 31.9. But the math does not work out.
31.7 ave is 2844 and 32.1 is 2885 a difference of 41 fps. This is too much and won’t produce good groups over time.
31.7 ave is 2844 and 31.9 ave is 2866 a difference of 22 fps. Still way to much to be a node.
These are nice looking groups but aren’t sustainable. I’ll look for a better graph.
March 31, 2009
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Here is another example. Better but not perfect.
Look at the fps delta between groups 4 to 5 and 5 to 6. Less than 10 fps in each case. Even 4 to 6 is only 14 fps. Testing these could get you long term performance.
September 19, 2014
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Chuck, Great info there! Fired our first groups today, with temps in the upper 80s at the time and near 70% humidity. Slight winds gusting from all four directions. My first group is in the books at 0.467 diameter for 10 rounds. Load was 26.2 grains of H322. Pretty mild. I did shoot 5 rounds loaded with 28.6 grains of IMRXP8208. No signs of pressure which was all I was looking for. Fired them into the berm to foul the barrel before shooting for record. Tim
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