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September 22, 2011
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And so sometimes you have to pay the Piper. The days of a decent $50 mold have gone the way of the Model A Ford. (Zebulon and Clarence might say the days of a good $20 mold are long gone.). $89.26 shipped to my doorstep.
The description states it’s a gas check bullet. What if you cast these bullets and don’t use gas checks? My guess is accuracy might be affected. How much?
April 15, 2005
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Your problem is not going to necessarily be just the accuracy. Instead, if you load to standard velocity & pressure, you are going to rapidly “lead” up the bore, which will then cause accuracy issues.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 22, 2011
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Okay, thank you. I guess I’ll have to get gas checks. That’s new for me.
I would have preferred a bullet that didn’t require gas checks—but beggars can’t be choosers.
November 7, 2015
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mrcvs said
And so sometimes you have to pay the Piper. The days of a decent $50 mold have gone the way of the Model A Ford. (Zebulon and Clarence might say the days of a good $20 mold are long gone.). $89.26 shipped to my doorstep.The description states it’s a gas check bullet. What if you cast these bullets and don’t use gas checks? My guess is accuracy might be affected. How much?
It’s my understanding that this cartridge doesn’t lend itself to downloading but someday, good Lord willing and no more tornadoes, I’m going to try! As you may know there has been some success downloading gas check design bullets to a velocity that does not require a gas check. In many cases a GC design bullet can be used without a GC as long as bore condition, velocity, powder pressure curve characteristics and other factors are considered. There are also DIY alternatives to GC’s but that’s a rabbit hole I haven’t personally explored, much like the 33WCF.
I wish you well. I have no interest in the 33WCF unless I can download it to around 1200-1300fps. I’ll own one someday and hope to shoot it so am very interested in your project. Please keep us posted on your project!
Mike
September 22, 2011
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TXGunNut said
mrcvs said
And so sometimes you have to pay the Piper. The days of a decent $50 mold have gone the way of the Model A Ford. (Zebulon and Clarence might say the days of a good $20 mold are long gone.). $89.26 shipped to my doorstep.
The description states it’s a gas check bullet. What if you cast these bullets and don’t use gas checks? My guess is accuracy might be affected. How much?
It’s my understanding that this cartridge doesn’t lend itself to downloading but someday, good Lord willing and no more tornadoes, I’m going to try! As you may know there has been some success downloading gas check design bullets to a velocity that does not require a gas check. In many cases a GC design bullet can be used without a GC as long as bore condition, velocity, powder pressure curve characteristics and other factors are considered. There are also DIY alternatives to GC’s but that’s a rabbit hole I haven’t personally explored, much like the 33WCF.
I wish you well. I have no interest in the 33WCF unless I can download it to around 1200-1300fps. I’ll own one someday and hope to shoot it so am very interested in your project. Please keep us posted on your project!
Mike
Any suggestions as to a load using this 338320 cast bullet and a desired fps of 1200 to 1300? Gas checks are an added expense and not cheap at about $44.95/1000 before sales tax and shipping.
November 7, 2015
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mrcvs said
TXGunNut said
mrcvs said
And so sometimes you have to pay the Piper. The days of a decent $50 mold have gone the way of the Model A Ford. (Zebulon and Clarence might say the days of a good $20 mold are long gone.). $89.26 shipped to my doorstep.
The description states it’s a gas check bullet. What if you cast these bullets and don’t use gas checks? My guess is accuracy might be affected. How much?
It’s my understanding that this cartridge doesn’t lend itself to downloading but someday, good Lord willing and no more tornadoes, I’m going to try! As you may know there has been some success downloading gas check design bullets to a velocity that does not require a gas check. In many cases a GC design bullet can be used without a GC as long as bore condition, velocity, powder pressure curve characteristics and other factors are considered. There are also DIY alternatives to GC’s but that’s a rabbit hole I haven’t personally explored, much like the 33WCF.
I wish you well. I have no interest in the 33WCF unless I can download it to around 1200-1300fps. I’ll own one someday and hope to shoot it so am very interested in your project. Please keep us posted on your project!
Mike
Any suggestions as to a load using this 338320 cast bullet and a desired fps of 1200 to 1300? Gas checks are an added expense and not cheap at about $44.95/1000 before sales tax and shipping.
I’m sorry, Ian. My loading manuals are still offsite and I’m not going to SWAG a cartridge I don’t load. One concern is the case volume, the powder would have to be one that isn’t position sensitive or a filler would be required. If you have Snooky Williams’ book he may have a good place to start. GC’s were $35 +/- last time I bought any, I thought that was too high!
Mike
September 22, 2011
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What did we decide here? Gas checks only, or try without using realistic loads for cast bullets (so I don’t lead up the bore? That is, published loads for 200 grain (or 201 grain) cast bullets?
I’ve never used gas checks before.
i have 7 five gallon buckets of wheel weights I’m melting my way through and so I have no shortage of lead. I might try these without the gas checks and provide a range report which may or may not be favorable unless the consensus is otherwise.
September 22, 2011
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Start with 22 grains 4198?
From what I have read, cast bullets don’t work particularly well in the .33 Winchester, so this is more a curiosity thing than anything else. Fortunately, I have about 400 jacketed 200 grain bullets for the .33 Winchester and my research reveals these were manufactured 2006 or before.
November 7, 2015
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mrcvs said
Start with 22 grains 4198?From what I have read, cast bullets don’t work particularly well in the .33 Winchester, so this is more a curiosity thing than anything else. Fortunately, I have about 400 jacketed 200 grain bullets for the .33 Winchester and my research reveals these were manufactured 2006 or before.
Ian-
My library wasn’t much help and I have yet to make my overdue trip down this particular rabbit hole. I believe you have MLV’s Leverguns book as he recommends a charge of 5744 and that lines up nicely with your 4198 theory. Most of my manuals ignore the 33 Winchester altogether and MLV took issue with the Hornady manual listings. When (if) I do venture down this rabbit hole I’ll be looking for a cast bullet load somewhere between 1600-1800fps. Mattern and MLV had some success in this velocity range so I remain optimistic. Mattern noted the bores he encountered were a bit generous in diameter and theorized higher pressures were necessary to cause the bullets to obturate. Have you slugged your bore?
Mike
November 19, 2006
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I recall Mike has some fairly non-typical powder recommendations for the .33 – that ended up working out very well for him. 4350 was one powder if I recall correctly.
November 7, 2015
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steve004 said
I recall Mike has some fairly non-typical powder recommendations for the .33 – that ended up working out very well for him. 4350 was one powder if I recall correctly.
Steve-
You did indeed recall correctly. MLV had pressure issues with some loads from the Hornady manual utilizing faster powders. His success with 4350 was a bit puzzling to me. I think he had a 5744 load for every cartridge he loaded in that book. Interesting cartridge.
Mike
November 19, 2006
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I’d be interested in hearing from others who have had successful experience shooting cast bullets out of their .33 WCF’s.
September 19, 2014
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for MRCVS. Ian, don’t wish to step on any toes and I did not go back to the beginning so may get into the discussion part way through and off base. First, I have quit with wheel weights. Far too many now made of zinc. Surely hope you check each one before melting it down as just a tad of zinc in the pot can ruin a barrel as I”ve been assured by my older, long time bullet casting buddy. He, too, has quit with wheel weights as too risky. Secondly, Rim Rock produces a commercial, cast gas check bullet for the .33 WCF. Might be good to buy 50 just to see how they shoot with differing powders and how they do on your barrel as far as leading. This may help you decide on what moulds to buy before you lay out the cash for one or more. I shoot a lot of .33 WCF and love the caliber, but I’ve stayed with jacketed bullets so far so have no first hand experience to provide you on lead bullets other than the caution and suggestion. Tim
September 22, 2011
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tim tomlinson said
for MRCVS. Ian, don’t wish to step on any toes and I did not go back to the beginning so may get into the discussion part way through and off base. First, I have quit with wheel weights. Far too many now made of zinc. Surely hope you check each one before melting it down as just a tad of zinc in the pot can ruin a barrel as I”ve been assured by my older, long time bullet casting buddy. He, too, has quit with wheel weights as too risky. Secondly, Rim Rock produces a commercial, cast gas check bullet for the .33 WCF. Might be good to buy 50 just to see how they shoot with differing powders and how they do on your barrel as far as leading. This may help you decide on what moulds to buy before you lay out the cash for one or more. I shoot a lot of .33 WCF and love the caliber, but I’ve stayed with jacketed bullets so far so have no first hand experience to provide you on lead bullets other than the caution and suggestion. Tim
My wheel weights were given to me by a retired gun smith who retired in 1994 when he turned 55 and they date to at least then, if not prior to 1986, when he didn’t do much of anything after her passing that year and a deep state of depression set in since then. So, I have been lucky in that these are all genuine lead wheel weights.
November 7, 2015
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Zinc wheel weights will be marked “Zn” and after awhile you learn to recognize them. I toss them in the bucket beside the one for steel. Not sure what the scrap folks give for them but pretty sure they are worth more than lead.
Mike
September 22, 2011
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At what year did Zinc wheel weights first come out?
Edit: AI tells me this is 2003. So not a problem with what I have.
September 19, 2014
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Sounds as if you are indeed safe. Lucky! Or good, either one. Tim
November 7, 2015
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mrcvs said
At what year did Zinc wheel weights first come out?Edit: AI tells me this is 2003. So not a problem with what I have.
New vehicles have been using steel or zinc for at least 20 years now. Tire shops and repair shops have been pushed down that path for awhile. Scavenging wheel weights at auto shops is probably a lost cause today, if not more so every day. New car dealerships probably not worth the trouble today. “Lead” wheel weights of late had a variable mix of lead, tin, antimony and who knows what else so buying a known alloy is probably best practice these days. I’ll have enough WW lead to feed my social equipment for the foreseeable future but some rifles like harder alloys, some softer. It’s easier to tailor your alloy when you start with a known alloy. Best plan is to buy from metal recyclers or hope to find an old stash somewhere.
Mike
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