Black powder only sticker on new 1886 45-90 . Are the new 1886 models that weak?|Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloading|Forum|Winchester Collector

I have about the same gun you’re looking at with the same sticker. The sticker is a creation of Fabrique Nationale de Armes de Guerre’s legal department, populated by adults still afraid of the dark. 

As Mike says, 45-90 was never SAAMI qualified because it became obsolete before SAAMI existed. 

If you read the tedious little Limited Warranty cards that come in the current Winchester boxes with ALL their excellent guns, you will see you are SOL.if your modest handload detonates and blows fingers off. 

ECOUTE MOI! You are to shoot FACTORY STANDARD PRESSURE AMMUNITION only,  

MON DIEU! But there is no FACTORY 45-90 ammunition, nor is there any 45-90 STANDARD PRESSURE. What to do?.

Warrant the use of black powder ONLY because the morons can’t get enough into the case to blow the gun up. VOILA!

The barrels of the new Winchester Model 1886 rifles are made from the same .458 rifled barrel stock — excellent hard and tough chrome moly steel — whether rollmarked 45-70 or 45-90. The ONLY difference is the fractional amount deeper the chambering reamers cut. 

It is perfectly safe to shoot factory 45-70 ammunition in a new 45-90 chambered Winchester. The breech pressure and velocity will be marginally less because of the additional freebore — A WHOLE THREE TENTHS OF AN INCH.  Wow.

The 45-70 case is about 2.1 inches long. The 45-90 case is 2.4 inches long. 

The original 45-90 Winchesters were given a slow 1-in-32 twist to shoot 300 grain bullets as fast as possible. An “Express” cartridge. The new barrel stock is rifled 1-in-20 for both chamberings, the standard twist for the shorter cartridge. The new 45-90 Winchester shoots modern  300 grain bullets just fine and, unlike its predecessors, also can handle 400 grain and some 500 grain bullets well. 

For the record, you can get enough smokeless powder into the shorter 45-70 case to send shooter and rifle to the Moon in pieces, too. 

While some agonize about adding wads or fillers to the longer case to take up unused powder space,  most rational smokeless loadings of the 45-70 do not completely fill the case, without adverse result. Treat the new 45-90 Winchester like a 45-70 and be happy. 

Like you, I wouldn’t die young in the absence of rebounding hammer lockwork. 

However, I actually.like the almost invisible tang safety.

I like it when I have to unload the magazine by jacking multiple rounds through the action while being extra careful to avoid the trigger. 

I like it when handling the rifle on sandbags seated at a too low range bench. Levering a round in with a barrel heavy 9 pound rifle held up with my weak hand and turned sideways to avoid fouling the bag, is awkward. It leaves me with returning a heavy COCKED gun to the bag with my left hand, too. I like to do that with a cocked and LOCKED gun.

I like it when, still seated, I then shoulder the gun and take a firing hold with my.right hand,. Sliding the safety off with my thumb is easier than contorting my arthritic right wrist up and over to crank the hammer back. 

Those who think only a moron could fire a lever action while loading or unloading a full magazine by inadvertently pulling the trigger — have never hunted with a moron. I once did and received enlightenment at 4 AM when said moron dropped hammer on his Marlin’s loaded chamber and fired a 32 Special into the ground between my feet. 

Just remember, heavier than standard weight bullets will cause more pressure.  I used 3 different powders and 3 different charges to get to around 1,500 fps with a 300 gr. bullet.  The heaviest charge was 43 grains and the other two were 24 and 31 grs.  Different powders cause different pressures. 

Steve,  I’ve owned a Model 1894 Marlin with push button hammer block and thought it was, at worst, unsightly and awkward. However, the rifle was for my young son to use and I was grateful for it  when he needed to unload a magazine of .357 magnum pistol rounds. As I recall, there was a half-cock position on the sear and we used that instead, otherwise. 

The Winchester tang safety is much better, so well designed as to be unobtrusive and I personally think it is a really useful device. You pays your money and you takes your choice but some people would complain about being hung with a new rope. 

Zebulon said

Chuck said
Just remember, heavier than standard weight bullets will cause more pressure.  I used 3 different powders and 3 different charges to get to around 1,500 fps with a 300 gr. bullet.  The heaviest charge was 43 grains and the other two were 24 and 31 grs.  Different powders cause different pressures. 
  

Absolutely. I think your post goes on the 1895 ’06 guy’s thread. But you are exactly right. And it is breech pressure that opens.headspace, not muzzle velocity.
  

No, I was talking about the loads I use for my 45-90’s. 

Thanks, Mav.  

Now that I have you 45-90.shooters together,  i’m.going to take a little excursion and ask how you deal with healthy 45-90 loads and steel crescent buttplates. 

I have a Miroku Winchester 1886 45-90 Sporting Rifle built to reproduce the disappearing comb, dropped style of the original stock, including a steel rifle buttplate. Getting a cheek weld on the comb while taking a stance that puts the butt squarely in my shoulder pocket, is the only way I can shoot it. 

I’ve tried putting the buttplate around my bicep and shooting across my chest like the muzzle loader commandos lecture. But when I hold the rifle that way,  the comb is so far away from my face I can’t get behind the sights. I’m 6’2″ but wear a 34″ sleeve and think that is the problem. 

So I’m considering a lace on pad with cheek rest and filling in the concave buttplate with a radiused piece of cross-linked foam or softwood. The LOP now is barely 13″and i can shoot a 14″ stock. This would essentially turn the butt into a padded shotgun style. 

TXgunNut and I tried my 45/70 86 ELW at the range a couple of days ago. With factory Remington 400 grain CoreLokt at 1600 fs, the 7.75 lb rifle lets you kmow when you touch it off but with shotgun butt and Mike’s magnum PAST shoulder pad, it was impressive but not painful. If I could replicate that experience in the 9 pound 45-90, it would be useful. 

I don’t think the 45-90 with the 300 grain bullets kick much at all.  Both of my 45-90’s have crescent butts.  Just make sure the butt is not on your collar bone.  The 45-70 with the 400 to 600 grains bullets kick like a mule.  As does my 95 in 35 with a shotgun butt.  Many years ago I bought a PAST recoil pad just for the 45-70 and 35 Win. 

Zebulon said
So you guys are saying make some 300 grain loads up to yield original blackpowder velocities and try them before worrying about alleviating what may be tolerable recoil? 
As long as those don’t approach the foot pounds the Remingon 400 grain factory stuff delivered, I’ll try it. 
And thanks to Maverick for educating me on Winchester’s “WHV” label. 
  

Bill-

Actually a prudent smokeless load could very well be lower velocity than the original BP loads. In my experience optimal velocity with acceptable pressures is best accomplished with BP. I never had any luck with 45-90 express loads using smokeless but I had a less-than-optimal test mule and an unabashed bias towards BP in a BP cartridge. Reckon I should pour you a few Gould bullets?

Mike

Mike – if Gould bullets are .458 or .459,  have crimping grooves in the right place for the 45-90, and come out anywhere near 300 to 330 grains, I’d love to have a few to try. Locally, all I’ve been able to lay hands on are 405 gas checked. As you know, my 45-90 is a new one and the barrel has nothing to snag lead, which is a good start. As long as I can hit a coffee can lid at 100 yards, it will be good enough for me and the hog de jure. To quote the late Jack O’Connor, he would “join his ancestors with commendable rapidity.” 

Taos Bill – 5744 is supposed to be the go-to powder for the 45-90.  Mike has given me a can of it, which I propose to use and, from all I’ve been able to read so far, 37 grains of the stuff for the 300-330 bullets is a reasonable load. How does it treat your shoulder? Mine has seen 81 Winters and is arthritic. 

Texas Bill