40 Ex|Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloading|Forum|Winchester Collector

I’m back.  Here are the pictures of my slugging tools and the 2 slugs just into the bore.  I like polished stainless rods with all the edges removed the best.  Short, about a foot long, wooden dowels next. The shorter ones won’t bow when you use them.  You will need a couple of sets for the different calibers.  I forgot to take a picture of the brass hammer.

The 1st attempt at slugging I used a .424″ solid lead ball.  The 2nd attempt I used a .457″ ball.  The smaller ball was OK but the 2nd attempt with the larger ball is a lot better. 

Next is the neck mandrel.  This one goes from 30 Cal to 40 Cal.  The mandrel sticking up through the plate then the case over the mandrel.  The last pic shows the successful attempt to squeeze the case, the failure, the mandrel, an original cartridge.  The bottom area you see the bullet I will use, the first slug and the second slug.  See how the smaller ball creates a small round slug and the other ones is longer and easier to measure.

I don’t know about expert, but I will have shot the 3 calibers that can be found.  I wonder where the 2 50 EX’s are?  It would be like finding a 50-105, or maybe worse. 

Anthony said
Chuck,
I agree with Mike, as you’re making great progress, and especially on the first day. A very good detailed explanation, of the first day’s progress. It’s frustrating when the case starts to split, but that does go with the territory unfortunately, as you’re well aware of. A great job slugging the barrel, as I like you’re approach. 
I do have to say that you’re teasing us with the picture of the end of the Octagon barrel, showing the flip down front sight. Is that a #3, or #4 barrel, on it?
(I went back to the .38 EX. post, and saw the letter, showing the #4 barrel). 
I know that you’re busy with you’re load development, and will eventually post some pics, so with patience being a virtue, I’ll stay vigilant. LOL!
I did have a John Browning Original rifle, serial numbered below 200,(mfg. 1880-1883), with a thick, (1 1/4 inch at the muzzle), 30 inch Oct. barrel, in the .50 caliber, but I doubt that was an Express, as I know that you’re referring to the two, 50 EX. Caliber rifles in Bert’s survey. I think the 50 Ex. first became available in 1887, for the M-1886 rifle. So in all reality, the Browning Bros. rifle in .50 Cal. was not in the .50 Ex! 
Keep it coming, and good luck with you’re progress!
 
Anthony
  

The 38, 40, 45 and 50 EX 3 1/4″ cartridges can only be shot in the 1885 highwalls.  The 1886 50 cal cartridges are way shorter to be able to cycle.  John Browning rifles were never chambered in any of these calibers.  Bert will know the calibers. 

I thought I posted a picture of the rifle in the 38 EX Forum?

I loaded one round today and will shoot it Tuesday.  Since I am fire forming the brass I used 75 grs of FFG and a filler so the bullet compresses the load.  Some of the same issues as with the 38 EX.  Shrinking the neck caused it to be too thick.  It will go into the chamber but it is tight.  The bullet doesn’t have a lot of neck tension.  I am able to use the 40-65 FL die to squeeze the neck some but not quite enough. 

I formed 5 more cases yesterday.  I then loaded all 6 cases with 70 grains of black powder.  We’ll see what happens on Tuesday.  Still trying to perfect my procedure.  I did mess up 2 cases in the process.  Luckily I have a good supply of the 450 Nitro Express thick rim brass and more is available at Buffalo Arms.  I’m going to have to order some more bullets.  The ones I’m shooting are the ones I use in m 86 40-65 too. 

I got a lead on some Bell 45 basic brass and will check it out today.  These are only 2 7/8″ long but are good to have in stock.  I’m trying to buy a Sharps Model 74 from a collection.  Having this brass allows me to be more flexible on the gun and cartridge I select.  Sharps have a few cases up to this length. 

Fired the 5 cases.  They were hard going in and 3 of the 5 had to be pushed out after firing.  Hopefully this will get better now that the cases are almost completely formed.  

TXGunNut said
Chuck-
Numbers look good to me. Progress!
 
 
Mike
  

Yes, some progress.  I need to shoot these a couple more times and eventually shoot full loads of BP. 

I was not able to shoot last week due to the rain.  But I did shoot the 6 cartridges this week for the second firing.  4 of the 6 loaded easily and ejected just fine.  The other 2 had to be pushed in and I had to use a cleaning rod to get them out.  But that is a step forward.  The metal for the first 1″ or so is still moving around.  When you squeeze this much metal to just get it into the chamber it has to go somewhere. The neck gets thicker and longer. 

I have no idea what the actual chamber length is.  Usually you want to trim your brass about .020″ shorter than the chamber. Then the max length of  the loaded cartridge has to be where it will cycle through the action.  If you have a removable magazine the cartridge needs to be short enough to go in and out of the mag. If this were a normal cartridge a good loading manual would give you a trim length of the case and max OAL of the loaded cartridge.  With normal cartridges you can buy a small piece to measure the chamber length.  You size your brass then slip the piece in like you would a bullet but don’t push it in all the way.  Using a light neck tension close the action and the piece will be forced into the case.  It is flat on the end so it won’t go into the rifling. Then you can measure the OAL to get your chamber’s max length. Even today not all chambers are the same length.  The SAAMI spec is a range not an exact measurement and reamers wear with use. I might make the piece myself out of a bullet.  I could cut the bottom of the bullet perfectly flat and put it in the case backwards so the flat side goes into the chamber first but not into the rifling.  All of this will get you the proper case trim length and max OAL of the cartridge but it does not tell you the best seating depth that your barrel likes.