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March 4, 2018
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I went back to the range today and took the 38-40 with me. I shot 10 rounds reloaded using the RCBS dies and 10 rounds with Lee dies. I had 3 split cases from the RCBS rounds as and zero split cases from the Lee rounds. The loads were identical and the brass was all once fired Starline. I did not anneal the once fired brass.
I can only surmise that the undersized cases from the RCBS dies caused the case failures. An undersized case has the same affect as an oversized chamber. I plan to call RCBS to see if they will replace the FL sizer die or at least tell me how I can tell if it was custom made.
November 7, 2015
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I suspect they’ll replace it once you explain the issue. They’re good folks, a refreshing change from most cs associates these days.
Mike
January 7, 2017
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I’ve had nothing but good service from RCBS, even on a 30+-year-old Ammo Master.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
WACA #10293
March 31, 2009
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I load every week and wore out 2 RCBS Charge Master lites in less than a year. The feed tube would wear out the plastic bushing and the feed tube would fall out. RCBS set me a new one each time.
April 3, 2018
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Having a few 44 WCF rifles in the past, it looks like you may have found the answer.
Would Unique or 4227 be a slightly better powder than Bullseye, at least as to pressure in your rifle?
December 12, 2019
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450 Fuller said
Having a few 44 WCF rifles in the past, it looks like you may have found the answer.Would Unique or 4227 be a slightly better powder than Bullseye, at least as to pressure in your rifle?
Fuller, this is personal opinion only, but I have always been nervous with Bullseye in the older firearms (or any firearm). It’s just too difficult to quickly see a double charge of powder with anything that fast burning. Unique is considerably better, and much more economic than 4227, and other ‘pistol’ powders.
Since I load most of my old cartridges for ‘plinking’ at around old black powder equivalency, Unique is a very good compromise.
NP
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
March 4, 2018
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450 Fuller said
Having a few 44 WCF rifles in the past, it looks like you may have found the answer.Would Unique or 4227 be a slightly better powder than Bullseye, at least as to pressure in your rifle?
450 Fuller, I actually tested Unique, Bullseye, and 4227 loads. Unique is my go to powder for pistol calibers other than 9mm. It is getting very hard to find so the Bullseye is my second choice. I use a lot of 4227 in lever action rifles. For whatever reason the Bullseye 6 grains load had the worst failure rate even though I also tested 6.2 and 6.4 grain Bullseye loads. These loads were all charged and then the bullet seated a round at a time since I was making just 10 rounds each, so a double charge isn’t likely.
November 7, 2015
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MCorrell said
450 Fuller said
Having a few 44 WCF rifles in the past, it looks like you may have found the answer.
Would Unique or 4227 be a slightly better powder than Bullseye, at least as to pressure in your rifle?
450 Fuller, I actually tested Unique, Bullseye, and 4227 loads. Unique is my go to powder for pistol calibers other than 9mm. It is getting very hard to find so the Bullseye is my second choice. I use a lot of 4227 in lever action rifles. For whatever reason the Bullseye 6 grains load had the worst failure rate even though I also tested 6.2 and 6.4 grain Bullseye loads. These loads were all charged and then the bullet seated a round at a time since I was making just 10 rounds each, so a double charge isn’t likely.
Oddly, Mattern’s “Reloading Ammunition” published in 1926 does not mention Unique for the 38WCF, and yes, Unique and Bullseye were very popular 98 years ago. Mattern had a very remarkable understanding of the interaction between burning powder and projectiles. MLV mentions Unique in his “Shooting Leverguns of the Old West”. Mattern lists a load of 3 grains BE under a 185gr solid for a “very accurate midrange load” and 4 grains BE under a 180gr solid or jacketed bullet but both loads were for revolvers. Personally, my 1873 (Winchester) and 1892 liked MLV’s 8 grains of Unique with no case failures so I suspect your powder choice is not an issue. My 1873’s bore was too rough for Holy Black but maybe I’ll try it someday in the 1892.
Mike
March 8, 2023
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Hi Guys,
I have shot 1000’s of 38-40 through a number of different pistols and rifles but primarily through my 1892 vintage 1896 and using Starline brass and have never had split cases. I use RCBS Cowboy dies and actually reload them on a Dillon 550B and I only wrecked a couple cases at set up. I use Unique and run the fps similar to what you are getting between 1150-1300. This particular 1892 is a brown rifle full octagon and has become my go to rifle living on my sheep farm for years now (23 and counting). I have taken porcupines, skunks, shot at coyotes, crows, and killed a number of squirrels with it. It has a 9+ bore and is pretty accurate even with my old eyes. This rifle has been a truck gun around here in NH been in Tennessee, out west to Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico and even California. It stands ready for me to grab when I need it and I have a spot for it on my side by side and even have my horse Jack carry it for me in a scabbard.
I tired to replace it with one of those new ones made in stainless and chamber in .357 mag or .44 special but I keep coming back to this 92! I like it so much I actually found companion handguns; a Ruger Blawkhawk in 38-40/10mm and a Colt New Model is 38-40 a few years back. Take my word for it if you figure out what the problem is with your rifle and get it running right you might find a new road trip friend!
Rob
March 4, 2018
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Well, I had been hoping to confirm that the RBCS 38-40 dies that were sizing cases undersize are their small base die set but have yet to talk with anyone from their tech support. Several calls on hold for 30+ minutes and requests for a call back and no luck. I guess maybe they are also suffering from lack of help like so many businesses.
I’ll likely offer these up for sale as a small base die set at some point since the cases are coming out as such. Might be just what a CAS shooter needs.
December 18, 2023
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450 Fuller said
Having a few 44 WCF rifles in the past, it looks like you may have found the answer.Would Unique or 4227 be a slightly better powder than Bullseye, at least as to pressure in your rifle?
It would depend on the age of the rifle.
I personally would not use any smokeless in black powder only firearms.
On the flip side, I have successfully used 4227 for 44-40 for a 1929 Winchester model 53 and the first batch of loads run around 1250FPS.
I’m going to throw another .5gr on it next batch and forward as I would like to get to around 1325FPS.
This first batch shoots extremely well with zero pressure signs.
February 11, 2018
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Julian Brachfeld said
I personally would not use any smokeless in black powder only firearms.
Here we go again! A Model 92 is not a black powder only rifle….geeesh
The Winchester 73′ used smokeless powder by 1895…ALL 73/92 RIFLES…Winchester never said not to use smokeless in older than xxxx dated rifles.
The High Velocity loads were manufactured ESPECIALLY for the Model 92′ rifles, all years!
December 9, 2002
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Once again, a great tutorial, Bryan! 
Anthony
March 31, 2009
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MCorrell said
Well, I had been hoping to confirm that the RBCS 38-40 dies that were sizing cases undersize are their small base die set but have yet to talk with anyone from their tech support. Several calls on hold for 30+ minutes and requests for a call back and no luck. I guess maybe they are also suffering from lack of help like so many businesses.I’ll likely offer these up for sale as a small base die set at some point since the cases are coming out as such. Might be just what a CAS shooter needs.
RCBS has been sold at least twice now. I believe that Hodgdon bought them from Vista? Hodgdon has been buying everyone.
Where are the cases undersized? And by how much? Measure the cases that are undersized. Head diameter/ base should be .470″. Shoulder diameter should be .444″. Neck diameter should be .416″. If you can, what is the thickness of the brass? Cut open one of the split cases if you have to.
Take the same measurements on a fired case that did not split. Did you chrono the fps?
March 31, 2009
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Maverick said
I’ll add that the 38-40 in my opinion has enough of a bottleneck that you might should be annealing the brass on occassion.I’m also fairly certain Starline doesn’t do a good job annealing, that is if they do it at all.
The 44-40 being a straight wall case, this less of an issue.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Brass looks brittle to me. Look at the way it opened up. Not a straight split. Annealing might help. Do not quench after annealing. This will harden the brass.
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