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Hello all. I recently became seriously interested in these slide action rim fires after getting an early 1890 in trade.
I started reading up, getting more interested because I’m intrigued by the minutia associated with them, it reminds me of S&W wheelgun collecting.
I joined up for the resources and I’m now cruising the shows and shops for examples.
To that end, I picked up a pretty nice pawn shop 62A Gallery model without the Roll mark.
I’ve looked it all over and as far as my UNeducated eye can tell, it seems legit.
I’m curious what you guys can tell me about these.
Does anyone have gallery model specific serial numbers or production counts?
Is there a ‘registry’?
Are the gallery models more valuable than the ordinary 62A?
Is the lack of a roll mark a plus or a minus?
Are Gallery models often faked?
I’ve read a bunch of threads here about faked 61s and others so it makes leery of everything, of course.
I assume some of you guys are creating records of auction listings and somehow keeping up with what has been listed, where.
I applaud you! I would never have the patience, I’m afraid. Anyway, if this gun is in your records somewhere, I’d be curious to know what I can about it.
189819X
I am going to see if I can load pics from my phone, here, in a moment.
Feel free to pick it apart.
Mr Surly said
Hello all. I recently became seriously interested in these slide action rim fires after getting an early 1890 in trade.
I started reading up, getting more interested because I’m intrigued by the minutia associated mwith them, it reminds me of S&W wheelgun collecting.
I joined up for the resources and I’m now cruising the shows and shops for examples.
To that end, I picked up a pretty nice pawn shop 62A Gallery model without the Roll mark.
I’ve looked it all over and as far as my UNeducated eye can tell, it seems legit.
I’m curious what you guys can tell me about these.
Does anyone have gallery model specific serial numbers or production counts? No, there are no production numbers for gallery guns.
Is there a ‘registry’? I think someone here is gathering info on 62″s
Are the gallery models more valuable than the ordinary 62A? Maybe to someone specifically collecting them.
Is the lack of a roll mark a plus or a minus? Very hard to say with the fakes out there.
Are Gallery models often faked? YES, most real ones have been used hard and have poor bores. Now I said most not all.
I’ve read a bunch of threads here about faked 61s and others so it makes leery of everything, of course. if there is money to be made they’ll fake it.
I assume some of you guys are creating records of auction listings and somehow keeping up with what has been listed, where. Search surveys
I applaud you! I would never have the patience, I’m afraid. Anyway, if this gun is in your records somewhere, I’d be curious to know what I can about it.
189819X I have read that the X means they goofed and struck the same serial number on 2 guns. Doesn’t add anything
Now I’m not an expert by any standard, nor do I have records, but I have experience.
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Vince said
Mr Surly said
……..
Is there a ‘registry’? I think someone here is gathering info on 62″s
I assume some of you guys are creating records of auction listings and somehow keeping up with what has been listed, where. Search surveys
The survey I am working on is primarily for Model 90s, 06s and 62/62As with serial numbers above 713199.
If I happen to note a 62A with a serrated steel buttplate I will jot that number down but I am not looking specifically for gallery guns other than those of the “5-Spot” variety.
EW
Thanks for the replies.
Because I “just had to know”, I shot this little gun today and it shoots really well. It apparently never saw the heavy use one would expect from a gallery gun, for whatever reason. My 1890 on the other hand, shoots very poorly, indeed!
I’m glad to find this forum; There’s a lot of good learning material here!
Another question: I’m interested in trying to get a factory letter on a couple of these, but some information indicates that letters are NOT available(?) on these guns?
Not a collector of these models but does a 62 “gallery” gun have distinct modifications that make it a gallery gun? Some models used for gallery shooting were modified for faster loading.
Chuck said
Not a collector of these models but does a 62 “gallery” gun have distinct modifications that make it a gallery gun? Some models used for gallery shooting were modified for faster loading.
I don’t really know what or how many differences there are, the only thing I’ve read that is a part of a gallery gun is that the cartridge cutout in the mag tube is a triangular cut, rather than a cartridge shape.
There are likely several other differences that I don’t know to look for.
Somebody much smarter will likely weigh in, here.
I am of the opinion that the majority of guns used as gallery guns will show the marks from the retaining chain band. No gallery owner was going to risk some wise ass running off with one, or a dumb ass pointing the loaded weapon in an unsafe direction.
PS The way the ones in the 50s shot, I thought they were smooth bore.
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Online
Mr Surly said
I don’t really know what or how many differences there are, the only thing I’ve read that is a part of a gallery gun is that the cartridge cutout in the mag tube is a triangular cut, rather than a cartridge shape.
There are likely several other differences that I don’t know to look for.
Somebody much smarter will likely weigh in, here.
Yes, you are correct, the model G6204R “gallery” version was chambered in .22 short only and had the factory triangular shaped loading port to accommodate the speed loader tubes. As Vince mentioned, the G6204R also came equipped from Winchester with a counter fastener.
The standard G6202R was a Model 62 chambered in .22 short only but did not come with the counter chain and had a cartridge shaped loading port.
Lots of non-gallery specific models were used in shooting galleries, the only common theme is that they have the ability to shoot .22 short cartridges which was the only chambering for the “spatterless” frangible bullets used in later shooting galleries. Guns actually used in shooting galleries will often have user modified loading ports for speed loaders and some evidence of a counter fastener (many of which were homemade). Another common feature among true gallery guns is that the parts will often be mismatched with the front receiver serial number different from the rear. Most large shooting galleries would clean the rifles every night and disassemble them and drop all of the parts in a large bucket to soak before reassembly. They were simply tools and there was no reason to match the front and rear.
Hope that helps.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Yes, you are correct, the model G6204R “gallery” version was chambered in .22 short only and had the factory triangular shaped loading port to accommodate the speed loader tubes. As Vince mentioned, the G6204R also came equipped from Winchester with a counter fastener.
Thanks Jeff. Where would the counter fastener be mounted?
Chuck said
Where would the counter fastener be mounted?
I’ve been fascinated with gallery guns since the last few years and have acquired two M62A’s with “leashes” (but not attached currently – one with the “Winchester” roll stamp) and while not a M62, here is my M74 gallery with the leash attached to show how they are attached (similarly on M62A).
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
3Dub said
Vince said
Mr Surly said
……..Is there a ‘registry’? I think someone here is gathering info on 62″s
I assume some of you guys are creating records of auction listings and somehow keeping up with what has been listed, where. Search surveys
The survey I am working on is primarily for Model 90s, 06s and 62/62As with serial numbers above 713199.
If I happen to note a 62A with a serrated steel buttplate I will jot that number down but I am not looking specifically for gallery guns other than those of the “5-Spot” variety.
EW
3Dub,
I have a model 62A with a serrated butt plate, SN 152979.
Al
Maybe this will help . . .
Below are two pictures related to a Winchester Model 62A Gallery gun.
First picture is the counter tie down strap and the blue loss to the barrel and magazine tube where it was attached.
Second picture is a box of .22 Short SpatterPruf cartridges along with some loading tubes used by the shooting gallery operator.
Thanks for the replies!
I’m still confused (of course)
I think what I’m learning is that
1. there were guns made for/sold to the gallery business.
2. There were other 22-short-only rifles that were made for general sale
3. Guns heavily used in a gallery typically show tie-down clamp wear.
More questions:
Is this gun a gallery model?
What are the differences in a gallery model? (How can you tell besides the mag tube?)
Could this be a gallery gun that just didn’t get used in a gallery?
If it was made for, but not USED IN a gallery… is it still a gallery gun?
Guns of different makes and models that were used in shooting galleries have come to be referred to…on occasion and in general by some people, even though they were never used in a shooting gallery…as gallery guns, most especially the 1890.
Hope this helps just a little bit.
James
jolly bill said
Maybe this will help . . .Below are two pictures related to a Winchester Model 62A Gallery gun.
First picture is the counter tie down strap and the blue loss to the barrel and magazine tube where it was attached.
The picture really helped. I used to have a large 1890 collection (none were gallery guns) but I did see some set up to be used in a gallery. I’ve also have seen the loading devices to load the extra speed loading tubes.
Yes the pictures would be very helpful. Reminds me of days gone by when I spent more than my share of time at such galleries. Knocked the red star out of one in three shots and was supposed to have won a new rifle, but then the carney running the gallery stated there was a state law having to do with age requirement…and at 9 or 10, I was not eligible for the prize. Something they never told anyone before taking their money to my knowledge. Still, I had tons of fun!
Mr Surly said
I’m still confused (of course)
I think what I’m learning is that
1. there were guns made for/sold to the gallery business. Yes.
2. There were other 22-short-only rifles that were made for general sale. Yes and they would have the smaller sized and cartridge shaped port in the mag tube for the .22 Shorts.
3. Guns heavily used in a gallery typically show tie-down clamp wear. Not necessarily. I had another M62A Gallery gun that was about 95% overall condition and there wasn’t any evidence of a tie down strap on the barrel and mag tube.
More questions:
Is this gun a gallery model? The gun I pictured above (and below) is a Gallery Gun.
What are the differences in a gallery model? (How can you tell besides the mag tube?) See below.
Could this be a gallery gun that just didn’t get used in a gallery? Yes.
If it was made for, but not USED IN a gallery… is it still a gallery gun? If it had Gallery gun features, collectors would describe it as a Gallery Gun.
Mr. Surly,
Some more pictures might help. This is the same gun that I pictured above showing the tie down strap and loading tubes and ammo.
A Winchester Model 62(A) Gallery Gun would have at least these two features: It would be chambered for .22 Short and it would have the specially shape loading port in the magazine tube to accommodate the loading tubes.
Like these . . .
Here is the .22 SHORT caliber marking:
Here is a picture of that specially shaped loading port and the tie down strap.
Here is what those .22 SHORT SPATTERPRUF cartridges look like in the box.
And here is me in May of 1956 at the shooting gallery at Coney Island. If you hit the bullseye, it took your picture. And standing alertly (sort of) next to me is my buddy and shipmate Mike Pore from Ka’zoo Michigan.
I hope this helps some.
Jolly
Thanks for that.
Below are the related pics of the rifle I have.
Are there other mechanical/ internal or less visible differences?
Mr Surly said
Thanks for that.Below are the related pics of the rifle I have.
Are there other mechanical/ internal or less visible differences?
It sure looks like a Gallery rifle to me.
No obvious marks from a tie down strap but I wouldn’t consider that unusual. It does show wear on the gun where it might have been sliding across the operators table or counter top and handled.
Looks good to me. Neat serial number too: 189819X.
Gallery guns are neat.
Jolly
Mr Surly said
Thanks for that.Below are the related pics of the rifle I have.
Are there other mechanical/ internal or less visible differences?
The aforementioned details are the only differences I am aware of. Yours is definitely the G6204R “Gallery” model, whether it was actually used in a shooting gallery is difficult to prove.
There are some rifles which have provenance such as invoices to shooting gallery operators with the serial numbers listed but that type of documentation is rare. The only indications on most rifles is the unique wear caused by gallery usage. The bulk of the value of the rifle is derived from the G6204R catalog number for the “gallery” model and not from any wear patterns that may or may not indicate gallery use. Personally, I like to see the honest gallery wear but would not pay extra for it.
Your rifle is a nice example, congrats!
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
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