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I have had a C&R FFL for several years. I do not have a business. I am just a collector. My question is: Why do several internet dealers (Gunbroker) choose not accept a C&R FFL? I have never tried to use it for a non C&R gun. My primary use has been for pre-64 Winchesters and Colts. Any of these are over 50 years old and therefore are covered under C&R rules as well as specific gun model specification. It seems to me that there is no reason not accept a C&R for a C&R eligible firearm. This whole deal reminds me of trying to buy a $100.00 item with a $100.00 bill and having the seller wanting two $50.00 bills.
November 7, 2015
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I am in the same category as you and my guess is that some dealers have had bad experiences with Type 03 licensees or don’t understand the process and don’t want to learn. If such a seller had a gun I wanted I’d probably call and ask why and try to help overcome his objections but so far that hasn’t been the case for me. Quite honestly I’ve found more than a few dealers barely understand the process and are better off keeping it simple to avoid errors. They’d rather lose a sale than risk making a mistake on a transfer. One of my regular stops is a Cabela’s and even though they know I am a C&R licensee I have to fill out a 4473 every time, even on antiques. The only exception has been a gun that was at a store in another state and the compliance person was familiar with the process.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Quite honestly I’ve found more than a few dealers barely understand the process and are better off keeping it simple to avoid errors.
STUPIDITY, in other words, combined with an arrogant distain for the extra trouble & expense caused for the would-be buyer; there aren’t ENOUGH federal gun restrictions, so these FAHs invent new ones!
But the ones who refuse to honor the lawful antique exemption carry FAH behavior to entirely new level! I once asked Gun Broker if there was a way to block the listings of such FAHs, so I wouldn’t waste my time reading their listings, but GB doesn’t give a damn about it either.
I’m in the same boat and, to make matters worse, live in Kalifornia.
You mentioned GB not accepting C&R. It’s important to note that when you buy from GB you are buying from the seller, not GB so it’s up to the seller as to what they will and won’t accept. It’s important to contact the seller first to be sure if it’s not clear from their listing.
I have had some bad experience with regard to this, including one seller who is quite respected and has really nice stuff who was a complete a$$ to me when he discovered I was a CA C&R holder. Too bad because at the time I was prepared to spend quite a bit with this seller. Other GB sellers have been great. These days I pay closer attention to WACA members listings or the few trusted sellers I’ve dealt with over the years.
My experience with the auction companies has been much smoother, but then again there are other caveats.
Just my 2 cents.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
supergimp said
You mentioned GB not accepting C&R.
Not what I said. I said GB didn’t give a $$$$ that many dealers refused to honor federal laws, which they could easily require. Following the letter of the law is ALL the law requires any dealer to do, not make up restrictions that aren’t on the books; if criminal misuse is made of a gun lawfully sold, the dealer isn’t held responsible…as if criminal misuse of antiques & C&R guns was a big problem!
Sorry. Guess I misread that. Regardless I agree with you 100%. GB doesn’t give a rats ass about either buyer or seller as long as they get their take. In fact they probably go out of their way to claim no responsibility for anything.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
clarence said
STUPIDITY, in other words, combined with an arrogant distain for the extra trouble & expense caused for the would-be buyer; there aren’t ENOUGH federal gun restrictions, so these FAHs invent new ones!
clarence said
Following the letter of the law is ALL the law requires any dealer to do, not make up restrictions that aren’t on the books…
Well said! You nailed it…my pet peeve! I’ve attempted to articulate this to numerous individuals in the past to no avail. Some people don’t get it, or just don’t want to get it. This isn’t rocket science…is all codified and IN WRITING for easy reference. Have heard some of the most outrageous and unreasonable “reasons” for not honoring the C&R one could ever imagine. It is terribly annoying attempting to deal with those who insist on adding arbitrary stipulations. I’ve let some know that my Federal Firearms License came from the SAME people and place as did yours…you moron!
P.S. I really didn’t convey the last two words (as much as I would like to have).
P.P.S. If you insist on a copy of my driver’s license in addition, I can live with that. But, if I can’t purchase a C&R item with a C&R license…what good is it?? 
I think the main reason that some sellers refuse a C&R is just plain laziness. They just don’t want to do a little research. I have had a C&R for over 20 years and bought dozens of C&R guns over the internet with no problems until my recent purchase on GunBroker. This past Dec. I saw a listing for a nice Winchester model 61 at a good BIN price. There was no mention of C&R in the ad so I queried the seller “Will you accept a C&R?” He answered “C&R is fine.” So, I hit the BIN and got his contact info. I sent payment and copies of my C&R and MA LTC (I am a MA resident). Two weeks pass and I am about to contact the seller when he emails me a tracking number. OK everything is good so far (except that he raised the shipping by $10.00 after I bought the gun). A few hours later I get another email from him (verbatim)”Its says online that in your state all guns even Antiques and (C&R) are sent to FFL to FFL dealers only but I’m not an FFL dealer. So I can’t ship this rifle your State. I talked with an FFL dealer in my state and he said only legal way to ship rifle to u is if you have a regular FFL. He said he cant even ship it to you legally because you just have a C&R . If you send me a regular FFL i can have him ship you the gun”. Everything in this statement is totally wrong. As bad as we have it in MA a C&R has no MA restrictions. We do have to register the gun with the MA Firearms Records Bureau within seven days of receipt but the seller info is not recorded. I sent him a link to a MA site that explains MA laws but he wouldn’t budge. So, now I have to find a MA dealer to send his FFL and receive the gun. I finally received the gun after 2 weeks and a transfer fee. I am very happy with the gun. I am not happy with the way I was jerked around. I strongly suspect his “dealer friend” told him the gun was worth more than I was paying and hoped I would back out of the deal. This has been the only time I have ever had a problem using my C&R.
Charlie
morsece said
This has been the only time I have ever had a problem using my C&R.
You’re luckier than me, or just living right. Seems unusual to have this problem with a private seller–mine have always been with FFL FAHs, many of whom won’t even ship an unquestionable antique except to another FFL.
Well, I have always avoided sellers who will not accept C&Rs. I didn’t get one to have to use a dealer. I think in this case he was offered a better price after agreeing to accept my C&R and hoped I’d back out of the deal. The fairy tale about the illegality of sending anything to MA unless it went dealer to dealer was particularly irritating. Unfortunately, a situation like this is unforeseeable given that he has been on GunBroker for nine years with over 900 feed backs. It wasn’t his first rodeo. I have never dealt with this guy before and should have studied his feed back closer. He does not have an FFL as far as I know. He is definitely on my avoid list now. Thanks for putting up with my rant.
Charlie
morsece said
He is definitely on my avoid list now. Thanks for putting up with my rant.
Don’t know if you caught my recent anti-GB rant; it pertained to my request to GB that a mechanism to block listings from the FAHS on my “avoid list,” as can be done on ebay, which GB copies assiduously in most other particulars. GB’s response: drop dead.
November 7, 2015
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morsece said
Well, I have always avoided sellers who will not accept C&Rs. I didn’t get one to have to use a dealer. I think in this case he was offered a better price after agreeing to accept my C&R and hoped I’d back out of the deal. The fairy tale about the illegality of sending anything to MA unless it went dealer to dealer was particularly irritating. Unfortunately, a situation like this is unforeseeable given that he has been on GunBroker for nine years with over 900 feed backs. It wasn’t his first rodeo. I have never dealt with this guy before and should have studied his feed back closer. He does not have an FFL as far as I know. He is definitely on my avoid list now. Thanks for putting up with my rant.Charlie
On GB for nine years with 900 feedbacks and he doesn’t have an FFL? I think I’d avoid doing business with him as well!
Mike
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