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January 26, 2011
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For all you 22 cal. guys …………. a nice 52 Sporter for sale. Just noticed it in my favorite seller notifications.
~Gary~
Why is it most Winchesters have the wrong magazine? Even this fine rifle has the wrong one. I guess they just get lost or go to the great magazine retreat in space. As a collector, I am a magazine freak. All my rifles must have a correct magazine. They are not cheap. Some go for over $100.
This is a real nice example of a pre A Sporter and it appears it has no COD. However, my choice would be a “C” Sporter, if I could afford one. Big Larry
That is actually an “unmarked A Sporter”. The “A” revision took place around SN 36700 in early 1935. Being an “A” revision gun, there will not be a problem with cracked receiver lug. The “A” did not start appearing on the receivers until around SN 42XXX. It appears to me to have had the the trigger guard and buttplate refinished also.
Steve
November 7, 2015
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Pretty sweet, anybody bidding? Trigger guard and butt plate do look a bit too nice for this gun, receiver looks a bit suspicious as well. Interesting comments in the description. Very nice looking rifle.
Very nice indeed. I will place a bid on this one on the last day.
Have purchased 5 rifles from them, always pleased.
I did notice that buttplate, but overall nice example.
seewin said
That is actually an “unmarked A Sporter”. The “A” revision took place around SN 36700 in early 1935. Being an “A” revision gun, there will not be a problem with cracked receiver lug. The “A” did not start appearing on the receivers until around SN 42XXX. It appears to me to have had the the trigger guard and buttplate refinished also.Steve
Have a marked “A”, SN 39742. Happens to be in one of those checkered standard-grade stocks shown on the cover of Houze’s book–which may be scarcer than the Sporters, though it cost only a few dollars more for such an “upgrade.”
Clarence, if I understand your post correctly, you have a standard target model A with a checkered stock? I have seen many of these, but honestly, have never seen one that I am 100% was factory done, except for the one on display at Cody. I’m sure they are out there, but indeed scarce. They are kind of like the pre C model Sporters that are drilled/tapped. We know the factory would do this on a special order basis, but w/o some type of provenance, it is near impossible to prove.
Steve
seewin said
Clarence, if I understand your post correctly, you have a standard target model A with a checkered stock? Steve
Exactly. Mine is only 2nd one I’ve seen, though I don’t get around much. First one was at a show many yrs ago, before I had Houze’s book, so I was naturally suspicious; adding to my qualms, the dealer had quite a high price on it. Later, after seeing Houze’s photos, I repented my timidity, because original or not, the checkering & PG totally transformed its appearance. Then several yrs ago the present one came along at another show, and this time I didn’t hesitate.
Even though records don’t exist to prove originality, doesn’t seem hugely implausible that special, non-catalogued, “extras” could have been obtained by anyone who took the time & trouble to request them–esp. if the request came through some Winchester dealer. Referring, of course, to those glorious pre-war days when most makers aimed to please.
Clarence, how about posting some pics? I have always put the checkered target versions in the same class as drilled/tapped 52 pre C Sporters, and the ubiquitous model 69 deluxe, of which there is probably originals out there. It is just sorting through all the fakes to determine which one it is.
Steve
seewin said
Clarence, how about posting some pics? Steve
My least favorite activity! If I knew how to make good, sharp, photos, I could sell thousands of $ worth of vintage hunting & fishing eqpt. on ebay–which I need in the worst way to clear out while I’m still physically able. The only way I’ve done it in the past, with just mediocre results, was to take the item outdoors, but the picnic table I use for that purpose is now buried under 2 ft of snow!
The one I have appears to be identical to the one on p. 130 in Houze’s book, except it lacks the adjustable swivel; little difference also in the shape of the PG. I’ll try to make an indoor photo in the next few days, but I guarantee it’s going to be a poorly lit snapshot full of either bright glare or dark shadows.
November 7, 2015
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Nice! Much better than my pics, but that’s not saying much.
TXGunNut said
Nice! Much better than my pics, but that’s not saying much.
I see the photos put up by others on various sites, so I KNOW these are pure shi! Good enough to identify a particular gun, but as for the crucial consideration if one were trying to sell on GB or ebay–condition–they are just about worthless. Even many cellphone photos are much better, and I’m using a Canon digital I paid about $500 for 8 yrs ago. (Present value, not $1, I’d guess, so damned if I’m buying another.)
The secret is lighting, and though I’ve tried several different arrangements of lights, the results always seem to be about equally bad. In fact, I’ve wasted SO much time to produce such miserable results, that I’ve stopped trying.
i have seen Clarence’s 52 i even have got to shoot it on the day he sold me his other 52. It is as beautiful as he says. joe
seewin said
…..The “A” did not start appearing on the receivers until around SN 42XXX. …….Steve
Steve,
If I may take the liberty to refine your statement a little as follows:
The “A” appeared sporadically on 52 Targets from around 397XX to 402XX and then consistently from 40219 and above, until beginning of the “B” version at 44402 (per Houze).
The “A” appeared sporadically on 52 Sporters prior to 41028 (e.g. 40592 in Houze’s book) and is then consistently seen from 41075 and higher. [[Note: if anyone wonders about SN 41310 in the RFC Win 52 Serialization Ranges Sticky, it is uncertain if it is “marked” or “unmarked” since the front scope mount covers the receiver behind the serial number in such a way as to hide the “A” – if there is one.]]
There are gaps in my survey, for sure, but with close to 200 “As” the trends are now holding very well. I suppose I could start another survey thread……
Addendum: the 52 Sporter on GB sold in the November 2017 Julia Auction and was paired with a marked A Target (SN 40517).
3dub, you are correct and I should have been a bit more specific. The 42XXX number corresponded to the date, in relation to new production, that the production change order was issued to mark all the “A” revision receivers with a stamped “A” suffix. At that point in time, June 18, 1936, production of receivers was right at 42XXX. I believe the reason for earlier rifles being sporadically marked with the “A” suffix is due to the fact that Winchester went backed and retroactively stamped all existing unmarked “A” receivers which they had in stock at that point. Does that make more sense?
Steve
Steve,
That is a very good explanation. I wonder if production orders and drawing changes may sometimes have actually followed the implementation of on-the-floor changes.
One thing that really puzzles me is why Winchester was so late in A-marking the Model 52s for a receiver design change when they had used that technique for many years on other models.
E.W.
EW, one thing that I have noticed about Winchester’s engineering documentation practices with the model 52 & 70’s, is that they were a bit haphazard. I have seen many blueprints that have revision dates that were well past the implementation dates of changes. I have also seen changes that were never noted on drawings, in best case scenarios, there might be a hand written note that the guy on the floor made to keep track of things. This might have been the way things were done back in the day, but coming from an engineering management position, it was pretty loose compared with today’s regimen. In their defense, the 52 was not a high production rifle for Winchester, especially when compared to some of the levers and other 22’s, so maybe it did not get the attention of some of the other higher production rifles.
Steve
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