Folks, I recently purchased Winder musket 111683 from the grandson of the original owner. James Blackhall served in the National Guard in PA and OH before being sent to France in 1917 as an officer. He was discharged in 1919. He was a keen shooter and competed in Army matches using his Krag-Jorgenson and this Winder musket which he and his descendants have preserved in excellent condition. It came to me with its military sling in very good condition, despite having suffered a break at a weak point (see photos). The receiver was serialized in 1911 but the sling is dated 1918. In one stamping, the markings seem to say HOYT above 1918 and then a third line which I cannot read. In another position there are what seem to be three letters, perhaps GCK, above the 1918. It is possible that the musket sat in the arsenal for several years before being sold off as surplus, perhaps in 1919 or later, in which case perhaps a new sling was provided on disposal. Possibly Blackhall was able to select it for himself for use in matches and later bought it from the Army or had access to a supply of Army slings and had a new one put on the gun (I can only speculate). As regards the sling, I wonder whether anyone has knowledge of the markings applied to Winder slings and can explain them. The leather is in good shape (not fragile) but it could use feeding and the brass could use cleaning. Can anyone with experience of 100 year old sling leather offer some suggestions about treatments which will help it survive better and not damage it further? I have been told that feeding old leather can make things worse.
Richard Calver said
…I have been told that feeding old leather can make things worse.
It can, because oils like Neatsfoot eventually degrade (oxidize, I guess), turn rancid and acidic. Waxes remain stable almost indefinitely, and would protect from further drying. Formation of verdigris on the brass is almost unstoppable in my experience, unless it’s coated with something like lacquer.
Hi Richard,
The sling on your Winder Musket is actually 2 halves from two different 1918 dated military model M1907 slings, one half from a Hoyt contracted sling and the other half from a G&K (Graton & Knight) sling. That sling did not come as original equipment from Winchester and was supplied by the military primarily for the Model 1903 and Model 1917 service rifles during WWI. Most target shooters of that era preferred the M1907 service sling (and many still do today) for competition so you will find them on many target rifles of the period. There are modern leather and synthetic slings of the same M1907 style still produced today. http://www.turnersling.com/
For old, dried leather preservation I prefer to use Pecard’s Antique Leather Dressing https://www.pecard.com/product/antique-leather-dressing/ It is a wax based product with no animal fats, tallow, neatsfoot or other organic ingredients which can turn rancid as Clarence mentioned. I use a soft toothbrush to brush off the brass hook verdigris before applying. The Pecard dressing seems to slow to return of the verdigris somewhat, possibly due to the wax insulating the brass and leather from oxidation.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
There are modern leather and synthetic slings of the same M1907 style still produced today. http://www.turnersling.com/
M1907 is the only type I use on the 52s I shoot offhand, though I have to make do with considerably cheaper ones!
clarence said
M1907 is the only type I use on the 52s I shoot offhand, though I have to make do with considerably cheaper ones!
Yup, me too! Turner does have a “factory second” sale on their M1907 and National Match slings once in awhile but they are still usually $50. I prefer the US cowhide over the leather used on the Chinese repros but they both work once they are broken in.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
I prefer the US cowhide over the leather used on the Chinese repros but they both work once they are broken in.
Regards,
Chinese repros are presumably what these are, but they remarkably well made for the money:
http://www.mountainstatesupply.com/US-M1907-Sling-Brass-Natural_p_13.html
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