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When did the 22hornet originate? Any idea how old this sealed box of bullets is?
44
The 22 Hornet was adopted by Winchester in late 1930 or early 1931. Prior to that it was a wildcat cartridge.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I can’t answer that question… but it certainly looks like it could be from that era.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The 22 Hornet was adopted by Winchester in late 1930 or early 1931. Prior to that it was a wildcat cartridge.
Bert
There was an earlier .22 Hornet, based on the .25-20 SS case, that might be called a semi-wildcat. It was the creation of Reuben Harwood about 1890, and he sold loaded cartridges & loading tools through shooting publications of the time. It died when he did, but I’ve always suspected that one of the folks involved in developing the later Hornet remembered Harwood’s cartridge.
Nice Box!
Based on the box it is pre-1938 for sure. I looked in Dan Shuey’s book but he does not mention the .22 Hornet which I thought was odd.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
clarence said
There was an earlier .22 Hornet, based on the .25-20 SS case, that might be called a semi-wildcat. It was the creation of Reuben Harwood about 1890, and he sold loaded cartridges & loading tools through shooting publications of the time. It died when he did, but I’ve always suspected that one of the folks involved in developing the later Hornet remembered Harwood’s cartridge.
Clarence,
The cartridge you are referring to was not ever called the .22 Hornet. It was referred to as the 22-3000 or 22 Lovell, and later the 2R Lovell, and it was simply a 25-20 S.S. necked down to .22 caliber. The 22-3000 cartridge was invented after the 22 Hornet cartridge.
Reuben Harwood is known for taking a 25-20 Winchester cartridge and necking it down to .22 caliber, and loaded it with black powder. It was referred to as the 22 Harwood Hornet. Nearly 40-years later, Winchester re-invented it as the 218 Bee.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Clarence,
The cartridge you are referring to was not ever called the .22 Hornet. It was referred to as the 22-3000 or 22 Lovell, and later the 2R Lovell, and it was simply a 25-20 S.S. necked down to .22 caliber. The 22-3000 cartridge was invented after the 22 Hornet cartridge.
Reuben Harwood is known for taking a 25-20 Winchester cartridge and necking it down to .22 caliber, and loaded it with black powder. It was referred to as the 22 Harwood Hornet. Nearly 40-years later, Winchester re-invented it as the 218 Bee.
Bert
I know about the Lovell, as I once had a box of the cases commissioned by G&H. Bought them intending to convert them back to .25-20 SS, but then thought better of it.
But I was also under the impression that Harwood had started with .25-20 SS, based on what I thought I remembered reading about it in Yours Truly, Harvey Donaldson. But checking back, he refers only to a .”25-20″ case. Uncharacteristic of him to fail to specify which .25-20 he meant. Anyway, thanks for the correction.
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Bert. All I could recall was that the lineage of the 22 Hornet was partly cloudy with scattered bits of misinformation. I think wildcatters necked at least a few small cases down to .222, .223 and .224 with a few different shoulder angles. I’ve always wondered why the 22 Hornet wound up with such a long shoulder and neck with a case body and rim geometry reminiscent of much earlier cartridges. Funny thing about this cartridge is that my shooting buddy, who’s been reloading for better than 40 years, can’t seem to better the performance of PPU factory ammo with his reloads. He has two very different rifles that love the PPU ammo but barely tolerate anything he loads. He’s a meticulous reloader with a background in mechanical engineering but this cartridge is his nemesis. After a bit of research I found Ken Waters has a very informative essay (and an update) on the cartridge in “Pet Loads”. I find it amusing that Captain Wotkyns used a Martini action to develop this round, my shooting buddy is using a very similar action.
Mike
Bert H. said
Reuben Harwood is known for taking a 25-20 Winchester cartridge and necking it down to .22 caliber, and loaded it with black powder. It was referred to as the 22 Harwood Hornet. Nearly 40-years later, Winchester re-invented it as the 218 Bee.
Bert, Here’s another variation on the story, from Mister Rifleman, p.216: “Hervey Lovell developed another .22 cartridge using the necked-down .25-20SS case. It was only the old Hornet cartridge that Rabbeth had developed many years ago, which failed because only black powder was then available.”
Seems the Colonel confused Rabbeth with Harwood. Also said he was the one who came up with the “Hornet” name for the new cartridge that he, Wotkyns, etc., were developing; so clearly the name was Whelen’s deliberate homage to the BP cartridge.
clarence said
Bert, Here’s another variation on the story, from Mister Rifleman, p.216: “Hervey Lovell developed another .22 cartridge using the necked-down .25-20SS case. It was only the old Hornet cartridge that Rabbeth had developed many years ago, which failed because only black powder was then available.”
Seems the Colonel confused Rabbeth with Harwood. Also said he was the one who came up with the “Hornet” name for the new cartridge that he, Wotkyns, etc., were developing; so clearly the name was Whelen’s deliberate homage to the BP cartridge.
Interesting, but to the best of my knowledge, Francis Rabbeth invented the 25-20 S.S. cartridge (circa 1882). I have not yet found anything else attributed to him, or any mention of “Hornet” associated with him. The basis for the modern 22 Hornet was the 22 WCF cartridge (invented by Winchester for the Model 1885 Single Shot rifle). The 22 WCF and the 22 Hornet are nearly identical (except for the bullet diameter). Wotkyns and Whelen simply squeezed the neck diameter from .228 to .223 and loaded it with smokeless powder (2400). The 25-20 S.S. is a substantially larger case than the 22 WCF/22 Hornet.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Interesting, but to the best of my knowledge, Francis Rabbeth invented the 25-20 S.S. cartridge (circa 1882). I have not yet found anything else attributed to him, or any mention of “Hornet” associated with him.
That’s why I said “confused.” He was writing this many decades after the fact, probably off the top of his head. Maybe the similarity of Reuben to Rabbeth threw him.
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
……..The basis for the modern 22 Hornet was the 22 WCF cartridge (invented by Winchester for the Model 1885 Single Shot rifle). The 22 WCF and the 22 Hornet are nearly identical (except for the bullet diameter). Wotkyns and Whelen simply squeezed the neck diameter from .228 to .223 and loaded it with smokeless powder (2400). The 25-20 S.S. is a substantially larger case than the 22 WCF/22 Hornet.
Bert
When I compare the case dimensions of the 22 WCF and the 22 Hornet that is the explanation that makes the most sense. Also explains the BP style shoulder eventually remedied by the K-Hornet.
Mike
TXGunNut said
When I compare the case dimensions of the 22 WCF and the 22 Hornet that is the explanation that makes the most sense. Also explains the BP style shoulder eventually remedied by the K-Hornet.
Mike
Never any mystery or confusion about its development, as cartridge received much publicity when introduced, beginning in the June, 1930, Rifleman. That article written by principal developer, Grosvenor Wotkyns, followed by another in Jan, 1931, by T. Whelen.
November 7, 2015
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clarence said
Never any mystery or confusion about its development, as cartridge received much publicity when introduced, beginning in the June, 1930, Rifleman. That article written by principal developer, Grosvenor Wotkyns, followed by another in Jan, 1931, by T. Whelen.
Thanks, Clarence. My AR collection doesn’t go back that far. 
The development was pretty well covered in the Waters essay I referenced above but I’m a visual person. I understood it much better when I saw the cartridge drawings & dimensions.
Bert H. said
Clarence,
The cartridge you are referring to was not ever called the .22 Hornet. It was referred to as the 22-3000 or 22 Lovell, and later the 2R Lovell, and it was simply a 25-20 S.S. necked down to .22 caliber. The 22-3000 cartridge was invented after the 22 Hornet cartridge.
Reuben Harwood is known for taking a 25-20 Winchester cartridge and necking it down to .22 caliber, and loaded it with black powder. It was referred to as the 22 Harwood Hornet. Nearly 40-years later, Winchester re-invented it as the 218 Bee.
Bert
Bert, On the “better late than never” principal, let me direct your attention to a Harwood ad for “his” Hornet that I thought I had remembered seeing, but couldn’t at the time locate. Today I found it while looking for something else: it appears on p. 74 of the No. 5 Ideal Handbook, and shows that the parent case was .25-20 SS, as indicated by its slender taper & long neck. If the headstamp shown in the drawing is the way it was actually marked, Harwood wasn’t merely necking down .25-20 SS cases, but had commissioned a run of his own headstamped brass, and even offered to send prospective customers a sample case & bullet!
Another place the round appears listed is the 1895 Stevens catalog, called the Stevens .22-20; interesting because a factory chambering takes it out of the purely “wildcat” category. Must not have proved popular, as by 1903, if not earlier, it was gone, maybe because Stevens introduced their own straight-case .22-15 in 1896.
Clarence,
Thanks for the update. I do not have a copy of the Ideal handbook you mention… any chance you could post a copy of it (or send it to me and I will post it) ?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
I do not have a copy of the Ideal handbook you mention… any chance you could post a copy of it (or send it to me and I will post it) ?
Bert
Will try if & when I ever get caught up with fighting the snow. Going out now for my daily task of running the blower.
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