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1894
December 27, 2015
7:07 pm
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Robert Renneberg said in his book you never know when you’ll be in the right place at the right time. 

Oct 26 1894

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December 28, 2015
1:54 am
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Kingston, WA
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What is the serial number of your 1st variation Model 1894?

Bert

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December 28, 2015
2:46 pm
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    Nice piece      Henry

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

December 28, 2015
4:08 pm
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What do these surveys do?

Do you ever post your numbers?

Does anyone else get to see your survey?

December 28, 2015
4:50 pm
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George:

 These surveys by various members on different subjects dealing with Winchester rifles and carbines just fill in areas of data for narrowing down things like time frames for changes to the particular model.

I don’t actually post this info but, if someone has a question about the things I keep tract of, I will give them any info I have on a particular subject.

Paul 

December 28, 2015
9:45 pm
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These surveys are very important for learning new information and correcting erroneous past information about the various models. I have responsibility for the Model 53 survey. That survey is ongoing and was a major source of new information in my recent article on the Model 53 in the WACA journal, advancing our knowledge of the Model 53 far past the small amount George Madis published quite a few years ago. Each of these surveys on the different models have already, or will in the future, result in a very nice article in the WACA journal, not to mention future articles. Essentially, one or more individuals volunteer to take responsibility to collect this data for the benefit of the entire Winchester collecting community. As one in charge of the Model 53 survey, I welcome any Model 53 questions and can also provide what info I have on individual serial numbers free of charge, simply for the enjoyment of it.

December 28, 2015
10:12 pm
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Nice looking 1894 !

 

Phil

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December 29, 2015
2:09 am
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podufa said

What do these surveys do?

Do you ever post your numbers?

Does anyone else get to see your survey?

In answer to your questions;

The surveys provide verifiable examples of the subject at hand.  For instance, I have thus far surveyed (138) 1st variation Model 1894 rifles & carbines, and the survey has allowed me to closely estimate the total number of them that were possibly manufactured.

Yes, I frequently post the numbers from my research surveys, and Yes,many other people have seen my surveys.  There are a fair number of fellow WACA members who have copies of my surveys, or have seen them in digital format.  Generally, I share a copy (via email) with anyone who participates in the surveys and asks me for a copy.

I have used the information in my research surveys in a number of the articles that I have written for the WACA Collector magazine, and I have shared all of my Model 1894/94, Model 55, and Model 64 surveys with Bob Renneberg.  Bob used some of my information in his 2nd Edition book on the Model 94, and a fair amount of the survey information in his recent Addendum to the same book.  Rick Hill and I have been sharing information for years on Spruce Guns and PCMR Carbines.  In regards to the 1st variation Model 1894s, I am working on a new article about them (at the request of another WACA member, who collects them as well).  The only requirement I have in sharing the surveys is that (1) you must be a WACA member in good standing, (2) they are not be used for writing a reference article or book without my express written permission, (3) you must be capable of receiving and viewing the document in Microsoft Office Excel.

Bert

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December 31, 2015
1:13 am
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How did you estimate the number of first models? Did you do a survey of second models and do a percentage or what?

I tried doing that and it seems hard to find many second models of the same vintage,people don’t seem as interested in early second models unless they are real nice.I have a total of 97 first models in my list and less than half that of second models same vintage.

December 31, 2015
2:53 am
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podufa said

How did you estimate the number of first models? Did you do a survey of second models and do a percentage or what?

I tried doing that and it seems hard to find many second models of the same vintage,people don’t seem as interested in early second models unless they are real nice.I have a total of 97 first models in my list and less than half that of second models same vintage.

I have surveyed all  Model 1894 serial numbers in the 1 – 7999 range that I have found (or reported to me from a reliable source), which does include a large number of 2nd models.  Additionally, I asked Jesi at the CFM records office for the exact caliber numbers for the first 7,999 Model 1894s made.  At this point, we know that with just (2) rare exceptions, that all of the 1st model 1894s made were in caliber 38-55.  And yes, I calculated the possible number of 1st models using an extrapolation table.  Per the CFM’s survey, the caliber breakdown for the first 7,999 Model 1894s is as follows;

1. 38-55 = 4,936

2. 32-40 = 2,459

3. 30 WCF = 424

4. 25-35 WCF = 140

There are also several dozen serial numbers with blank entries.

Thus far, I have surveyed (136) 1st models and (47) 38-55 2nd models in the specified serial number range. The extrapolated number of 1st models is currently sitting at 3,668, and I expect that number will decrease slightly as more information is added to the survey.

Bert

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December 31, 2015
12:17 pm
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Bert,

Here is an early second model for your survey if you don’t already have it.

Gun Broker Auction #531949711

Serial number 4963, 38-55, take down, octagon barrel, full mag.

Al 

December 31, 2015
6:33 pm
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Al,

Thanks, and I did already have it in the survey. It has 1st models on both sides of it. This is also in the serial number range where the 30 WCF begins to appear on a frequent basis.

Please keep looking for all Model 1894 serial numbers you can find that are < 9999. Thus far, I have (259) serial numbers in the survey.

Bert

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February 2, 2016
11:15 pm
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Here is an 1894 Ser No. 113

It is a .38-55 caliber rifle that has a factory letter with it.

It also has an assembly no. of 102 on the lower tang and stock; the crescent butt plate has no number but appears to be original just based on look and fit.

Hope this helps.

February 3, 2016
4:01 pm
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PackerBacker said

Here is an 1894 Ser No. 113

It is a .38-55 caliber rifle that has a factory letter with it.

It also has an assembly no. of 102 on the lower tang and stock; the crescent butt plate has no number but appears to be original just based on look and fit.

Hope this helps.

What date was it received in the warehouse? Does it have an octagon of round barrel?

Bert

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February 3, 2016
6:48 pm
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Bert,

It has an octagon barrel and the following dates attached to it:

Received by warehouse:  November 2, 1894

Shipped by warehouse:   November 5, 1894.

 

Regards

February 3, 2016
9:48 pm
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Thank you very much for the updated information.

Bert

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