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April 3, 2018
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Bert;
The latest American Hunter Summer Edition 2025 has a reader letter
citing Ben Lilly and the Winchester Collector. The American Hunter had a previous article on Holt Collier as a guide to Theodore Roosevelt on his
famous bear hunt in Mississippi at the turn of the previous century. But the original AH article failed to mention Lilly. As 1886 Winchesters were carried by
Roosevelt and his guides, a correction was needed.
An alert editor caught the omission and the reader’s letter. The reader happened to be a WACA member, knowledgeable of both Ben Lilly , the Collector article,
and 1886 Winchesters. He should be, as your obedient servant ready for all things 33 WCF/1886 related.
April 15, 2005
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450 Fuller said
Bert;The latest American Hunter Summer Edition 2025 has a reader letter
citing Ben Lilly and the Winchester Collector. The American Hunter had a previous article on Holt Collier as a guide to Theodore Roosevelt on his
famous bear hunt in Mississippi at the turn of the previous century. But the original AH article failed to mention Lilly. As 1886 Winchesters were carried by
Roosevelt and his guides, a correction was needed.
An alert editor caught the omission and the reader’s letter. The reader happened to be a WACA member, knowledgeable of both Ben Lilly , the Collector article,
and 1886 Winchesters. He should be, as your obedient servant ready for all things 33 WCF/1886 related.
I do not have a copy of that publication… can you send me a scanned copy of it?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 3, 2018
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Bert:
Let me work on getting that together for you. ( The American Hunter is a companion magazine to the American Rifleman, both publications of the National Rifle Association based in N. Virginia,)
Ridge
July 17, 2012
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Ridge,
I don’t see it in the June and July American Hunter magazines but I have not gotten my August yet, is that where it is?
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
August 8, 2024
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Yes, It is in the current American Hunter magazine. It will be found at the beginning in the readers write section.
April 3, 2018
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Bo is correct. It is in the Says You: Reader’s letters column for the August/2025 issue. Brown bear on the cover: very fitting for Ben Lilly.
July 17, 2012
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I found it, it was in my 2ft high mail pile….
Here is the letter posted in the latest American Hunter magazine.
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
April 3, 2018
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Thanks Jeff-
Bert will be able to see it here. T. Roosevelt was definitely amazed at Lilly’s endurance and hunting prowess.
Both the 1886 and Model 71 Winchester rifles are still in use in the northern forests of Alaska and Canada, as well as the New Mexico mountains.
Ridge
December 9, 2002
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Not to get off track here, as I’m enjoying this information also. Currently on Prime, the series with Teddy Roosevelt, in his earlier years, “Elk horn”. I see there’s another, program after we watch this one, called, “Roosevelt”! 
It’s all T.R. related, so I thought I would add it.
Anthony
November 19, 2006
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And Ben Lilly stashed his .33 WCF rifle somewhere… and as far as people know, it’s never been found?
September 19, 2014
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That seems to be the case as I recall. I paid particular attention as I really like the caliber myself. Tim
April 15, 2005
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steve004 said
And Ben Lilly stashed his .33 WCF rifle somewhere… and as far as people know, it’s never been found?
That would most definitely be a rifle to own!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 19, 2014
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I would not be too surprised if this rifle was found by someone long ago. If they did not know its history and viewed it only as a gift by providence, it likely went on to a second career in a family. As happened with Bo Whoop that was lost along a road in Arkansas and promptly picked up by a timber cutter. It only came back on the scene maybe 10 or 15 years ago after having been advertised as lost, and a substantial reward offered for its return. Bo Whoop belonged to Nash Buckingham, was special bored by Burt Becker and shot nearly 100% patterns with Super X magnums. It was very famous as well as its owner in the days long ago. If you found some nice Winchester rifle, would you really go out of your way to find its proper owner? Now, Bert and I would as would many brought up right. But if you and your family had a hard time finding two pennies to rub together? Just my thoughts. Tim
November 19, 2006
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I suspect that when Ben Lilly stashed something, he didn’t want someone other him finding it. My gut tells me it is still right where he put it
April 3, 2018
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The Lee brothers in Arizona, 1920s hound hunters who knew Lilly, knew of the cave near Sapillo Creek up a few miles from the Ben V. Lilly brass plaque on the NM boulder. They knew the rough details of where it was stashed with some supplies. Since this area is north of Silver City in very rough mountainous country toward the Gila Wilderness, and indications are the 1886 rifle was not found by them. This area is on the AZ-NM border, and rougher country would be harder to find in the United States. I have roamed these areas with an 1886 and a Model 71, hunting Coues and mule deer. If you had a picture of the rock it was hidden behind, there would be 10 more like it in both states-with a rattlesnake coiled around the buttstock. It probably is still out there, as Lilly’s other rifle, an 1894 in 30 WCF was given to the wife of the GOS ranch owner in New Mexico. The Lilly 33 WCF 1886 has not surfaced to date.
September 19, 2014
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I crawled around some rough country in southern AZ as I hunted coues deer, javelina, etc. Would often swear to myself that I was somewhere no on had been in many years. Sometimes found old rusted cans from an old prospector or whatever (no pull tab). I did find a couple of old hunting knives. The new battalion S-1 was a bachelor with a metal detector and weekends on his own. He looked for gold, old coins, etc, and did find a Ruger pistol in fairly good shape yet. You might be surprised just how many and who they might have been that search the back country just as a hobby. Plus there are still old hounds men (one lived near the west gate of Ft. Huachuca) who search the back woods, far mountains for lions to run for fun. Yes, if properly well hidden, the Lilly model 1886 may still be there. That is what makes folks go looking just for the adventure of it. But it may also have been found and is a treasure for someone unknown. Just my ramblings. Hope it is still out there and never found! Tim
November 7, 2015
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tim tomlinson said
I crawled around some rough country in southern AZ as I hunted coues deer, javelina, etc. Would often swear to myself that I was somewhere no on had been in many years. Sometimes found old rusted cans from an old prospector or whatever (no pull tab). I did find a couple of old hunting knives. The new battalion S-1 was a bachelor with a metal detector and weekends on his own. He looked for gold, old coins, etc, and did find a Ruger pistol in fairly good shape yet. You might be surprised just how many and who they might have been that search the back country just as a hobby. Plus there are still old hounds men (one lived near the west gate of Ft. Huachuca) who search the back woods, far mountains for lions to run for fun. Yes, if properly well hidden, the Lilly model 1886 may still be there. That is what makes folks go looking just for the adventure of it. But it may also have been found and is a treasure for someone unknown. Just my ramblings. Hope it is still out there and never found! Tim
No telling what someone will find if they dig and scratch around a bit. One thing to consider is those oldtimers lived out there and didn’t want their caches to be found. Ridge has a good point about rattlesnakes. Have yet to meet a sociable one, they seem to resent folks trespassing on their hunting grounds. Some of these caches would attract rodents and the rodents in turn attract snakes.
Mike
April 3, 2018
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Having been assigned at Ft. Huachuca, I am familiar with the West Gate and have covered that area on horseback years ago. Was out there and on to Sonoita and Patagonia last year. Of course this area is a good distance from the Blue and the Pinos Altos country in New Mexico that Ben Lilly hunted with his hounds. An explorer and NM author named Salmon knew some more details on Lilly and his hounds, along with his rifles. He knew old timers that knew Lilly and the Lees, AZ-NM hound cat and bear hunters of the 1930s.
Brad Dunbar wrote an excellent piece on the 1886 in 33 WCF within the Spring 2023 Collector. I found my first and best 1886/33 at a Tucson gun show in 1986, and saw a FM version that belonged to a S. Arizona prospector who got into a gun fight with his partner over a gal, about 95 years ago. That 86 now belongs to a retired US Border Patrol agent. I agree with Brad on Hawk bullet choice. Since Hornady has discontinued the 200 gr FP bullets, both in 33 WCF and 348 WCF, bullet choices for the 33 Winchester have become critical, unless you resort to bullets like the the 210 gr Nosler Partition, with just one in the magazine and one cartridge chambered.{The lead tip on Nosler partitition 338/210s can easily be removed, placing bullet weight closer to 200 gr.Effective.}
The 1886 in 33 Winchester was popular in places like Alaska and Canada.
Ridge Marriott
LTC-USA-ret
5th SFG (ABN)
KheSanh-1971
September 19, 2014
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You and I ought to get together sometime at Cody, maybe. I was at Huachuca a total of 7 years over the two postings. Loved the Patagonia for camping. Was strongly advised to give that up the second time around due to drug runners. As to bullets, my “shooting” model 1886 in .33 can function well with the flex tipped .338 200 grain bullet if I unscrew the magazine about one turn. Provides just a tiny bit so the bullet clears the magazine and feeds. Not true of all 1886’s in .33 WCF. Tim (LTC, retired 1995)
November 19, 2006
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Tim, Ridge and others –
I’m really enjoying hearing the continued .33 WCF talk. Also enjoying that presently we have three active threads that focus on the .33 WCF.
The other piece I greatly enjoy is hearing about your experiences in that harsh and rustic New Mexico back country. Sure sounds like life on the edge and living large to me.
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