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Winchester wood stains
December 24, 2019
3:15 am
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I have a couple projects on the go, just grey shooters but pre 64. I have stripped the wood, after someone thought it was a good ideal to varnish them at some point. These have also been stained pine at some point.
Can anyone advise what they use for stain that is close to the factory red walnut ?

AG

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December 24, 2019
12:47 pm
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AG said
I have a couple projects on the go. They’re just grey shooters but pre 64. I have stripped the wood after someone thought it was a good ideal to varnish them at some point. These have also been sanded & stain pine at some point.
After stripping, can anyone advise what they use for stain that is close to the factory red walnut ?

AG  

Check the Brownell's on-line catalog - I think I've seen a Winchester-red walnut stain there. It was a few years ago that I ran across it.

Dave

December 24, 2019
1:39 pm
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David McNab said

Check the Brownell's on-line catalog - I think I've seen a Winchester-red walnut stain there. It was a few years ago that I ran across it.

Dave  

UPDATE - This was bugging me so I looked in my old Brownell's Catalog ( 2009 ) as follows -

Pilkington Classic Spirit Stains, Color "Pre 64", Stock # 703-300-204AA, Desc. Reddish brown like older U.S. Guns

Hope this helps...D.

December 24, 2019
1:55 pm
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Thanks David I’ll check it out.

AG

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December 24, 2019
2:09 pm
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The Pilkington stain/finish was not available for quite a long period. I don't know if they have gotten it back in inventory recently. Recently I've been mixing Minwax Gunstock red with Tru oil. You can vary the degree of red by applying 1-2-3 coats of just the stain and then moving to the oil/stain mix. Test it on a donor piece of wood to make sure it meets your expectations..... Pilkingtons directions for applying finish (wet sanding method) yield very good results if you are looking for a true oil finish.

 

Erin

December 24, 2019
3:30 pm
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Haven't tried it yet but I bought a small bottle of 'Winchester Stock Oil by John Kay'. It's a wet sand application as well. I think I found it somewhere on this site in an old thread. It's sold on eBay. 

December 24, 2019
7:37 pm
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Erin Grivicich said
The Pilkington stain/finish was not available for quite a long period. I don't know if they have gotten it back in inventory recently. Recently I've been mixing Minwax Gunstock red with Tru oil. You can vary the degree of red by applying 1-2-3 coats of just the stain and then moving to the oil/stain mix. Test it on a donor piece of wood to make sure it meets your expectations..... Pilkingtons directions for applying finish (wet sanding method) yield very good results if you are looking for a true oil finish.

 

Erin  

Like Erin, I mix my own stain to match the gun.  I have a lot of stains in various shades of brown and the same thing in mahogany stains with varying shades of red.  You can buy someone's mix and start from there. Then start blending. The only pre made stain I have ever bought is Tapadera's N-35 and N-35 B. I have not used it though. One of the gun show regulars sold it.

December 24, 2019
9:22 pm
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Its been a lot of years since I tried to refinish stocks but I used to use Minwax in either as a mixture, or applied at different times to get the color I wanted, using Golden Pecan, Special Walnut, Red Oak stains.  Really depends on how dark or lite the wood is when you remove the original finish.  I've used Formbys Furniture Refinisher to remove the old varnish but tried to leave as much of the original stain intact.  Thought about experimenting with some of the Fieblings leather dyes one of these days should the opportunity arise--but have found if using to touch up something they can leave a blemish because they will remove the oil finish, maybe because they are alcohol based.  One or two coats of tung oil applied when finished and let cure.  Then maybe takes some boiled lindseed oil with some pumice on a cloth to thin down the tung oil finish.  The main thing, especially if your edges on the forearm and buttstock are sharp, is not to get too sand or even rub with 0000 steel wood when removing old finish in those ares because you can easily round the edges.  Ive tried Brichwood Casey True-Oil guns stock in combination with these other stains as well.  All results vary.    

 

Here is a pic of my shooter 38-40 I stripped and refinished about 10 years ago.

DSC08720.JPGImage Enlarger

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December 25, 2019
12:36 am
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I've thought about refreshing some stocks and had settled (potentially) on the John Kay formula- still available from Homestead.  I've never bought any and really need to get to it one day.  Anyone have any experience with that stock oil?

Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....

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December 25, 2019
1:33 am
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1892takedown said
The main thing, especially if your edges on the forearm and buttstock are sharp, is not to get too sand or even rub with 0000 steel wood when removing old finish in those ares because you can easily round the edges.

 

Here is a pic of my shooter 38-40 I stripped and refinished about 10 years ago.

DSC08720.JPGImage Enlarger  

Always use a block when sanding.  It will keep everything flat and won't round your edges if you keep it flat.

December 29, 2019
1:02 pm
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Has anyone used tru oil ? I’ve never used it & just reading about it now. Would you also apply it to the wood on a high condition gun with some minor finish wear?

AG

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December 29, 2019
2:44 pm
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Tru oil is a lot like syrup, pretty thick. I ALWAYS dilute it with thinner by at least 50%, sometimes more. (greatly reduces your drying time also) Myself, I wouldn't try and spruce up a high condition stock with minor wear. Honest wear isn't a bad thing..... In my opinion

 

Erin

December 29, 2019
2:49 pm
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Erin Grivicich said
Tru oil is a lot like syrup, pretty thick. I ALWAYS dilute it with thinner by at least 50%, sometimes more. (greatly reduces your drying time also) Myself, I wouldn't try and spruce up a high condition stock with minor wear. Honest wear isn't a bad thing..... In my opinion

 

Erin  

Any specific thinner Erin ?

AG

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December 29, 2019
4:18 pm
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I've never used Tru Oil on a Winchester, but I have made a couple of gunstocks for sporter mausers and always put on Tru Oil with my bare hands. It takes LOTS of thin coats, rubbed in with your fingertips. As you build up coats, the finish will get glassy smooth. After the first couple of coats (which really soak in) I rub very aggressively with the palm of my hand and a small amount of Tru Oil generating a considerable amount of heat.

After 10 or more coats and a week or more to cure a little pumice will cut the high gloss sheen and give a super smooth, deep finish that feels great to handle.

Takes patience though. 

I have no idea if it is appropriate for a Winchester, however.

 

Steve

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December 29, 2019
4:47 pm
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supergimp said
I've never used Tru Oil on a Winchester, but I have made a couple of gunstocks for sporter mausers and always put on Tru Oil with my bare hands. It takes LOTS of thin coats, rubbed in with your fingertips. As you build up coats, the finish will get glassy smooth. After the first couple of coats (which really soak in) I rub very aggressively with the palm of my hand and a small amount of Tru Oil generating a considerable amount of heat.

After 10 or more coats and a week or more to cure a little pumice will cut the high gloss sheen and give a super smooth, deep finish that feels great to handle.

Takes patience though. 

I have no idea if it is appropriate for a Winchester, however.

 

Steve  

Steve is the pumice in the form of a stone or Pumice paper ?

AG

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December 29, 2019
5:21 pm
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AG said

Any specific thinner Erin ?

AG  

Mineral spirits

December 29, 2019
5:46 pm
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supergimp said

I have no idea if it is appropriate for a Winchester, however.

 

Steve  

If the rifle came with an oil finish I believe it would be.  Probably not with the utility grade non filled standard finish. When I do my stocks, I always do a filled oil finish. It's a better protectant and it looks "finished"  I don't try and pass off my restorations as high condition factory originals and usually do a couple of modifications to make it apparently obvious.\

This one is a prime example and it will also give you an idea of what a tru-oil finish looks like.  The after pictures are almost at the bottom of the page. I never cared for the ugly pistol grip on 1910's so I turned this one into a semi deluxe.... This one had one coat of minwax gunstock red before using my blend, I should of gone 2-3, it's a little bit light on color.

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/whats-new/new-winter-project/

 

Erin

December 29, 2019
7:13 pm
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AG said

Steve is the pumice in the form of a stone or Pumice paper ?

AG  

The pumice that woodworkers use comes in a powder form.

I have used Truoil and like Steve has said.  I apply it with my fingertips.  I sand between coats. It will come out very shiny and smooth.  I use it on some guns by mixing a very small amount with boiled linseed oil to get a little sheen.

Here is a rifle that the finish had softened so bad the fleece from the gun boot was stuck into the finish.  I removed the varnish with lacquer thinner and then hand applied coats of truoil.  The spots are damage from an elk hunt in Utah.  I will apply truoil in the scratches until I build up the finish to where it is level with the rest of the stock. 

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December 30, 2019
1:32 am
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AG said

Steve is the pumice in the form of a stone or Pumice paper ?

AG  

It's a powder. 

 

Steve

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December 31, 2019
9:04 am
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I've used the Winchester Stock Oil by John Kay on half a dozen or more stocks with good results.  It will not give you that deep reddish brown color you are looking for by itself, but it is a really great product and my favorite for an old Winchester stock.  After some experimentation, I have started staining the stock first with one the products described above and then beginning the wet sanding process. You may have to add a little more stain later as the sanding removes a lot of the color.  Rub it in good with your hands to generate a little heat.  Follow the directions exactly as they are written and you'll be happy with the outcome.  This is about a month long process if you do it correctly, so take your time and be extremely patient.  You thin the oil with mineral spirits and keep it in a clean plastic medicine bottle for several weeks.  You'll know when it's bad because it will start to really thicken on you.  I had the best results with this product in a warm, dry basement during the Wyoming winter.  Hang the stock if you can and made sure the area is super clean because that oil will pick up any dust in the air.  If you make a mistake or get some trash in the finish, just gently sand it out with some steel wool and reapply.  When it dries it will be a super shiny glass-like finish, so if you're going for the satin look you'll need to cut it back with some 0000 steel wool or pumice.  Good luck!

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