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Winchester model 70 Pre-64 22 Hornet
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June 14, 2021 - 8:00 am
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Hello everybody 

Right now I have a new project and need some help. 

 

I’m restoring a Winchester model 70 Pre 64 22 hornet caliber and I am almost finished,  already find the most difficult parts I need and now looking for the easiest is where I don’t know what to do.

 

I need the stock and the floorplate but any place I look there is no information about those parts. 

 

Does those parts be the same as any other caliber or are they specifically for the 22 hornet caliber? 

 

I would appreciate any comment.

 

Thank you.

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June 14, 2021 - 4:31 pm
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Hi samysombra-

The pre-64 M70 receiver for the 22 HORNET has the same external dimensions as any of the standard caliber receivers, so any stock will fit.  In fact all the pre-64 M70 receivers, including the long H&H magnums have the same external receiver dimensions.  The only difference is that the H&H magazine box is a bit longer so a complete H&H action w/ magazine box won’t fit in a stock with the standard magazine well.

No worries with the 22 HORNET however…  Laugh  Most of the Hornets were made during the time frame where the low comb NRA style stock was dominant.  Only a relative few assembled late in production had the MC comb stock, though some did so depending on your serial number you might be able to go either way.

As for the floor plate…  It was a specialized part in that the slots meant to accommodate the magazine leaf spring of standard calibers had to be opened up a bit to accept the coil magazine spring of the Hornet.  The Hornet floor plates were almost always stamped with the letter “H” on the inside.  Finding an original H floor plate, especially if good original finish is an issue, may be a challenge.  But one can readily modify a standard floor plate to work as long as “originality” is not a concern.

Hope this helps, Laugh

Lou

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September 16, 2022 - 6:35 pm
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Hello Everyone….
 
I am contemplating a 22 Hornet build on the M70. I do have a few H specific parts on hand.  Some of the missing parts can be bought, the rest would have to be modified from standard parts or made from scratch.
 
During my parts research I kept finding clues along the way to what I needed.  One revelations was when I happened to look at standard firing pin springs and found that there must be a special one for the Hornet.  The listing gave dimensional length for pre war at 4.75″ and post war of 5 and 5.25″ and went on to say, “Except 22 Hornet”.
 
 
 
The bolt stop  extension needs to be found or fabricated.  If an extension needs to be made I need  a dimension for length.  I estimate the extension to be about 1.6″ long.
 
Any help would be great and appreciated.  Thanks JMc
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September 17, 2022 - 4:01 am
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JMc, the bolt stop extension for the Hornet is 1.617″ long…..good estimate. 

The firing pin spring dimensions are: 5.6″-5.72″ free length, 39 coils, .050″ wire dia, .402″ spring dia.

These dimensions are from the original blueprints. I have not verified either by physically measuring them, although I can do this if needed.

** I verified these measurements this afternoon. The bolt stop extensions varied from 1.605″ to 1.616″ long based on measuring 6 different Hornets. The firing pin springs measured 5.5″ long with a .050″ wire dia. I only measured 2 of these, one being an all original rifle my Dad bought new in 1948. I would expect these springs to loose a bit of length over 75 years due to fatigue and set over the years.  Honestly, I think the standard spring would work just fine. They run about 5.3″ long and have a .052″ wire diameter.**

Hope that helps,

Steve

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September 19, 2022 - 3:31 am
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Steve,  thank you for the information, very helpful, now I have starting point on the bolt stop extension. It is great that you took the trouble to get the “as built” dimesons. A wide range of numbers between your low value
of 1.605″ and the blueprint value of 1,617″, I think not a concern as far as bolt stops extensions go.  I would think reference points on the drawing must be from the rear of the extension to rear edge the ring and the fount of the extension is less critical as long as it clears the locking lug…..okay I’m over thinking it.
 
About the firing pin spring lengths values taken from the dimensional blueprints, are these numbers specific to the Hornet or standard?   Yes, standard spring should work just fine. 
 
It is great that you have access  to blueprints for reference. Your shop measurements and blueprint values are an example.  Do these prints happen to have extractor claw geometry especially for the Hornet?    I may have to build one.  I checked with two parts suppliers and as expected the are out of stock.
 
Thanks,
 
JMc
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September 20, 2022 - 7:38 pm
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Steve,  I called Classic Arms and Parts about M70 firing pin springs, they have both pre war and post war springs, but not the one for the Hornet.  I was given a part number from a 1962 Winchester parts catalog of #7370. I am curious as to the differences with the standard spring.

Meanwhile I will be satisfied with a standard spring.

JMc

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September 20, 2022 - 8:05 pm
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JMc, unfortunately, I cannot find my drawing on the standard fp spring. I have physically measured the springs, and the only significant difference I can measure between the 2 springs are the wire diameter, with the Hornet measuring .050″ and the standard measuring .052″. All the springs seem to vary what I call significantly in length, usually by .100-.200″ in overall free length. This go’s for both the standard and Hornet. I equate this to “set” and manufacturing tolerances over the years. Winchester was very inconsistent with updating changes to their engineering drawings. I have seen numerous examples of this over several different models, not just the 70’s. The spring dimensions could have been changed and never documented.

Steve

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September 21, 2022 - 2:36 pm
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There are ‘new’ Hornet Mag springs available on eBay for under $30.00, quite a few have been sold.

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September 21, 2022 - 5:36 pm
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Tedk,  thanks for the info, my next major parts to find would be an extractor.  

 

JMc

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September 27, 2022 - 7:37 am
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Steve,  I need to order a correct FP spring retainer and you have your Dad’s  HORNET purchased in 1948. The receiver that I’m rebuilding happens to have been made in 1948 and I would like to select the period correct part.  My guess would  be  type 1 with ribs.  The information I have reads type 2 was introduced  in mid 1952.  Would the type 1 retainer be the correct for a 1948 rifle?

Thanks,

JMc

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September 27, 2022 - 10:48 pm
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Yes, my dad’s old Hornet which was s/n’d in Nov of 1949 does have the ribbed retainer.

Steve

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October 17, 2022 - 11:57 pm
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Hello all,

I am new to this club, and have a hornet made in 1951. The problem with it is that it will not always eject the shell. I replaced the extractor, but that did not help.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

Thanks,

Frank 

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October 18, 2022 - 5:05 pm
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Hi Frank-

“Eject” or “extract”???  You said it won’t always eject so you replaced the extractor.  I’m confused, sorry… Frown

Both the extractor and ejector were unique to the 22 HORNET action.  The ejector is riveted onto the side of the outer magazine box, and I’d expect that a failure to eject might mean that the tip of the ejector was bent or broken.  Maybe the spring that pushes it up is missing or broken.  See pic below:

M70-22-HORNET-Ejector.jpgImage Enlarger

OTOH… A failure to extract would be due to wear/modification/damage to the lip of the extractor.  Replacing the extractor should have fixed that issue, I would have thought…

Lou

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October 19, 2022 - 12:24 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Frank-

“Eject” or “extract”???  You said it won’t always eject so you replaced the extractor.  I’m confused, sorry… Frown

Both the extractor and ejector were unique to the 22 HORNET action.  The ejector is riveted onto the side of the outer magazine box, and I’d expect that a failure to eject might mean that the tip of the ejector was bent or broken.  Maybe the spring that pushes it up is missing or broken.  See pic below:

M70-22-HORNET-Ejector.jpgImage Enlarger

OTOH… A failure to extract would be due to wear/modification/damage to the lip of the extractor.  Replacing the extractor should have fixed that issue, I would have thought…

Lou

  

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October 19, 2022 - 7:45 pm
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The extractor catches the case and moves it back so the ejector can eject it from the gun.

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October 19, 2022 - 10:15 pm
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I am having trouble adding to the post.

Frank 

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October 20, 2022 - 2:58 pm
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Hi Frank-

You have to be logged in to edit one of your prior posts.  Once you are logged in, look in the right hand corner of one your posts (in the bar that has the date/time stamp to the left).  There should be three icons that allow you to delete, edit, or quote (hovering the cursor over each should bring up actual words explaining the meaning of the symbol).  The middle one, which looks like a little pencil, is the “edit this post” icon.  Clicking that should open your prior post in a new window where you can type in the white field below anything you may have “quoted” earlier.

At least that’s how I THINK it’s supposed to work… Confused

Lou

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October 20, 2022 - 4:11 pm
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Thanks Lou.

The extractor doesn’t always grab the shell. Some ammo works better than other

Frank 

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October 20, 2022 - 4:28 pm
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Sometimes the extractor collar becomes a bit loose and does not hold the extractor down tight against bolt allow the extractor to slip over rim. Try a new collar or possibly just massaging the ends of the current one to put a bit more tension on the extractor.

Steve

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October 20, 2022 - 4:51 pm
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Hmmmmmm…  And you said you’d replaced the extractor to no avail??? 

The bolt face recess of the Hornet bolt should be 0.356″ and the lip of the extractor should extend into this so that it can reliably grab the cartridge rim.

22-HORNET-bolt-face.jpgImage Enlarger

You might want to take the bolt out and see if it will grasp and hold a 22 HORNET shell once you slip it up under the extractor lip and into the bolt face recess.  You should be able to wave the bolt around and not have the cartridge fall out.  If it holds some brands of ammo and not others, then it’s probably an ammo issue (variable rim diameter), not a gun issue.  If they’re all loose then either the extractor lip is too short or the bolt face recess is too loose to keep the brass centered while extracting.

22-Hornet-bolt-with-brass.jpegImage Enlarger

Back in the day (1950s) it used to be pretty common for M70s in 22 HORNET to be converted to 222 Remington.  This involved work on both the extractor and bolt face since the 222 REM cartridge has a rim diameter of 0.378″ compared to the Hornet’s 0.350″.  Not a big difference, but converting a M70 back to 22 HORNET is more than just finding a new barrel.  Maybe measure the bolt face recess and make sure it’s about 0.356″???

That’s all I can think of presently.  Good luck!!!

Lou

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