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This may not be one of our most popular videos, but maybe the most important for those of us who ship firearms. We’re seeing a lot more damaged firearms and packages. Package them like you expect the shipper to try to break ’em. Mark
Another good and informative Video, Mark.
It’s an important video for all of us as we all can learn from this.
Thanks for posting, and teaching many of us!
Antonio
November 5, 2014
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Thanks for the informative video Mark!!! 
I lose sleep every time I have a rifle in transit… 
While not a story about damage, I recently got to see how Rock Island Auction packaged a particularly expensive firearm. It arrived (via UPS) in perfect shape, but the packing was IMHO extraordinarily thorough and I think worth describing…
First, the gun was put in a thin plastic sleeve. It was then wrapped stem to stern in bubble wrap held in place by plastic film wrap. Since this was a bolt action rifle, the bolt was naturally packaged separately. The wrapped rifle was put into a Pelican Case, you know, the fiberglass ones that are airtight, waterproof, and weigh about 25 lb empty. The middle layer of foam was cut to fit the rifle and other parts so as to prevent their movement inside the case, and the latches were secured with tie wraps. The case then went into it’s original box and two additional layers of corrugated cardboard, covering ends as well as sides, were added to the outside… The firearm inside weighed about 10 lb. The entire package weighed 45 lb. No kidding!!! Not surprisingly RIA wanted the case back, so they included a pre-paid UPS return shipping label inside.
Overkill??? I don’t really think so…
My biggest concern with shipping in a hard plastic gun case, as you said in the video, is that the firearm inside the case is free to move around. Those egg crate foam liners just don’t grip the gun firmly enough to prevent its inertia from letting it smack the outside of the case when (not if) it is dropped. Especially in the cheap plastic cases people use as disposable shipping containers. Adding additional layers of bubble wrap or foam packing to hold the gun in place and padding the ends seems to me to be essential if you don’t want the gun to arrive with the bare muzzle sticking out of one end…
Personally, I have been using the cardboard gun shipping boxes with three layers of styrofoam inside, so that the middle layer can be cut to the outline of the gun and essentially prevent movement. An extra layer of cardboard outside doesn’t hurt either, but I suspect that this packaging is still more susceptible to penetrating injury than a plastic case would be…
Good Luck everybody!!! May be USPS, UPS and FedEx gremlins stay away from you door…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis Luttrell said May be USPS, UPS and FedEx gremlins stay away from you door…
I think USPS is safest; not because the feds hate guns less than UPS, but because their volume of large packages is so much less, with no really heavy freight like cast iron stoves to be thrown down on top of your rifle. A bolt-action I’d take out of the stock & wrap both pieces separately.
Online
Louis,
I did something similar when I sold a blued 73 that lettered with the 62b tang sight. I cut a 1″ sheet of foam board to fit the gun to keep it from sliding inside the foam lined case. I also wrap the sights since I have seen rear barrel sights get bent from sliding inside boxes. Then I cut 1/4 ply wood to reinforce the cardboard box I put it in. Arrived in without issue.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bob-
I like that plan!!! Maybe you can get a part time job packing for RIA??? Even on cheap guns they seem to pack the Hell out of stuff… Probably just good business practice on their part… 
Plywood on the outside is an excellent idea, as it helps offset the vulnerability of cardboard shipping boxes. Not that expensive (compared to the value of the contents) provided you can cut the stuff…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I’ve packed a lot of boxes and each one is a custom job. I nearly consider a blend of art and science. One friend always makes a triangle shaped box – that way, other boxes can’t be set on top of it.
I prefer USPS and always go for the, “special handling” option. It was about $12 for $13 extra. What this means is that the box is handled by a real person every time it is transferred (e.g. from truck to warehouse, back and forth etc. – rather than simply tossed on to a conveyor belt). They plaster the box with special handling stickers. Every box I’ve shipped that way has come through just fine. Of course I can’t say they wouldn’t have, had I not added that feature.
steve004 said One friend always makes a triangle shaped box – that way, other boxes can’t be set on top of it.
That’s the way I’ve shipped target scopes & bamboo fishing rods (& what stories I could relate about damage to them!), but such a box large enough for a rifle would have to be custom made. Though nothing can be piled on top of it, it can still be heaved off a truck like any other box.
Shipping target scopes had become a challenge. I switched a few years back to using 4″ PVC pipe and caps. I wrap the scope with foam & tape prior to inserting it in the tube. Over 15 shipped without a single issue… I would think that 6″ and 8″ tubing & fittings could be used for rifles using the same method.
I have shipping things in PVC but you have to put something around then so they don’t roll otherwise they can easily roll away or fall off conveyors increasing the risk of damage.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Back when I was a dock loader at CF, we had a saying. “It’s not in, until it’s broke”. Joke, yes, but as an OSD clerk, over, short, and damaged, I saw freight damaged you would think could never be damaged. Most by lazy forklift drivers. Big Larry, (former Teamster).
Mark and all, A timely and needed topic. Thank you for producing it. For sure it seems in the recent couple of years that package handling has gotten worse by all shippers regardless. I won’t go into details as everyone seems to have their own tales. Suffice to say as was already pointed out—its not if but when it will happen. NO ONE makes it easy to file a claim either. The auctions seem to go overboard in packing but it pays off in the long run. WE as individuals need to mimic their approach or do as Mark showed. Tim
One of my brothers is a retired, should have been fired, postal worker. Believe me you are really taking a chance shipping anything valuable. Theft and intentional damage is not uncommon. Things get intentionally lost or get caught up in an endless shipping loop and sometimes never get to the final destination.
Chuck said
One of my brothers is a retired, should have been fired, postal worker. Believe me you are really taking a chance shipping anything valuable. Theft and intentional damage is not uncommon. Things get intentionally lost or get caught up in an endless shipping loop and sometimes never get to the final destination.
When that happens, your regular tracking # is useless, never leads to finding out where that item wound up. Only way to achieve “accountability” is sending by Registered Mail.
Over the last 40 yrs, I’ve had not less than a doz packages left on my porch by UPS with someone else’s name on them. Never once has UPS returned to claim them, though they were surely notified that the item never arrived at its intended destination.
Very hard to believe that someone would put something of value packaged like that in the mail.
Mark,
Tanks for taking the time, very good subject and content. The damage to both tangs on an 86 with the wood on is jaw dropping. I guess you have to package the gun to be thrown 10 feet.
I wonder if it’s deliberate. The shapes and business names tell you whats inside. Maybe golf case boxes are in order. Maybe changing you business name to Wyoming Golf Club. T/R
I wonder if it’s deliberate. TR said
Sure wouldn’t be surprised! I’ve encountered unbelievable hostility matched with unbelievable ignorance at several different UPS shipping offices–telling me, for ex, I had to have to show them an FFL; suggests that attitude is part of the UPS “culture.” No problems, however, at independent UPS agencies, such as the UPS Store. Have heard of similar problems at certain big city POs, but not in small town POs like my own, where the clerks know local residents.
November 7, 2015
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clarence said
I wonder if it’s deliberate. TR said
Sure wouldn’t be surprised! I’ve encountered unbelievable hostility matched with unbelievable ignorance at several different UPS shipping offices–telling me, for ex, I had to have to show them an FFL; suggests that attitude is part of the UPS “culture.” No problems, however, at independent UPS agencies, such as the UPS Store. Have heard of similar problems at certain big city POs, but not in small town POs like my own, where the clerks know local residents.
Yes, anyone who has handled packages more than a day or two knew there was a rifle in that package. As Mark pointed out in his EXCELLENT but scary video the claims policy is written and administered in a manner to discourage claims so the package handlers have little to fear in the way of repercussions as their hijinks are unlikely to cost the company much, if anything. I suspect the employees at USPS are held to a bit higher standards but with the current turmoil at Brown and their main competitor that’s not saying much. I just retired from a job involving logistics and claims, I’d build a sturdy crate and ship it LTL if I couldn’t ship USPS and would give it serious thought otherwise. Quite honestly if I was the purchaser (yeah, dream on!) of one of the guns mentioned above I’d engage a courier service. In this case I would have likely delivered it personally if I’d known about it earlier. Some guns simply can’t be replaced.
Mike
November 5, 2014
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Insurance is a separate topic, but I agree that insuring your package with the shipper (ANY of them) is a waste of money and potential source of prolonged aggravation… Even if the shipper (eventually) acknowledges the legitimacy of a claim, you have to choose between the money or (what’s left of) the gun… No opportunity for an “adjusted” claim that compensates the victim for costs of repairs plus “loss of value” due to loss of “originality”… If you take the money, you give them (what’s left of) the gun… If you keep the gun you get NADA… IMHO there’s no point in even bothering to insure an expensive package with USPS, UPS or FedEx…
OTOH… I know that some gun dealers who ship a lot of firearms have a policy with an independent insurance company that specifically covers damage in shipping. For VERY reasonable cost… One dealer in particular (a WACA member), I know does this… It is still (thankfully) a relatively rare event for a valuable item to be damaged in shipping, so I guess the insurer comes out OK… But <$20 to insure a couple hundred $K gun is pretty good IMHO…
Unfortunately, I do not know the name of the company my friend uses, but the option is apparently out there…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis Luttrell said IMHO there’s no point in even bothering to insure an expensive package with USPS, UPS or FedEx…
When mailing small parcels at the PO–scopes, sights, valuable books–I never buy extra insurance on the theory that items bearing the “‘insured” marking are more likely to be stolen passing through a bulk mailing ctr; the thieves in those facilities (fed employees with jobs for life) can’t steal everything, so naturally they pick out whatever appears most valuable. Theft by UPS & FedEx workers is less likely, I think, but risk of damage much higher, so I still believe USPS is the lesser evil.
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