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I have purchased a nice 1886 that is original except the receiver screw. The receiver is case colored and the receiver screw is blued. I guess I have some options as I would like the rifle to be completely original. I need to figure out if the replacement screw is a factory original or an after market item. How do I tell the difference? Depending on the outcome of that investigation I guess I have a couple of options.
1. If screw is an after market find an original screw. Any of you guys have one if I need it?
2. If screw is a factory replacement lighten it by removing the blued surface. What is the best way to do that?
Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.
Cheers Kirk
Kirk,
Take a real good closeup of the head with a real camera not a cell phone and post it. Original screws and repos will have different machine marks most of the time.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
What 1873man said plus: replacement screws will usually have some circular machining traces on the head and the slot will be way narrower that the rest of the screws on the receiver. I’m assuming by “receiver screw” you are referring to the tang screws. If so, a .0415 hollow ground screwdriver tip (Weaver # 141) should fit the screw slot perfectly, based on my own 1886’s. Also, the end of the screw should be flush with the lower tang and be ever so rounded along the edges after the threads end, rather than be filed flat.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
OK guys when I get the rifle I will take photos and post them for your assessment.
TX
Kirk
Here are the photos of the receiver screw in question. The question is it original, factory replacement or after market? Or can we tell?
Comments?
TX
Kirk
That a repo screw as well as the one in the loading gate.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
The hammer screw is an aftermarket replacement as well as the loading gate screw. The cartridge stop screw is probably one too, though it’s hard to tell from the fuzzy photo.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
OK that does not give me a warm fuzzy. Does anyone know where I can get an original screw(s)? Does anyone make a factory spec replacement? How does this effect the value of the rifle? Nuts!
The problem you have is your gun looks to be a high condition gun and trying to find original screws to match would be rare. I think what you might try is to have the screws refinished so they can be passed off as original.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
This guy claims to have NOS screws for the 1886, but then, eBay is full of “NOS”.
The screws look pretty close to original specs, might only need to polish off the machine marks on the heads, if present.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
My assessment is that they are reproduction, BUT, on the other hand it’s a screw.
Years ago I had problems finding correct buttplate screws, and got tired of repairing buggered ones. I had 5K buttplate screws made, identical to the originals, sold 4500 of them, and now I see quite NOS buttplate screws on ebay 🙂
Screws are easily made and replaced, if you want a well made Winchester screw made to spec, go to Bob Knapp (aka Winchester Bob on the net). Bob is a good friend and is meticulous about his parts.
Also, on many early Winchesters, especially case hardened frames, the screws were case hardened not blued. Winchester used a different wood/bone ratio on small parts, so the colors are a bit thinner (not as bright and bold) and did not have a shellac/lacquer protective finish applied, so they “silvered out” rather quickly.
Respectfully
Mike
Mike Hunter said
My assessment is that they are reproduction, BUT, on the other hand it’s a screw.Years ago I had problems finding correct buttplate screws, and got tired of repairing buggered ones. I had 5K buttplate screws made, identical to the originals, sold 4500 of them, and now I see quite NOS buttplate screws on ebay 🙂
Screws are easily made and replaced, if you want a well made Winchester screw made to spec, go to Bob Knapp (aka Winchester Bob on the net). Bob is a good friend and is meticulous about his parts.
Also, on many early Winchesters, especially case hardened frames, the screws were case hardened not blued. Winchester used a different wood/bone ratio on small parts, so the colors are a bit thinner (not as bright and bold) and did not have a shellac/lacquer protective finish applied, so they “silvered out” rather quickly.
Respectfully
Mike
Thanks for that information, Mike. I have often seen Winchesterbob’s site but have hesitated to order from him as he doesn’t post any pictures for his stuff. On sites with photos one can usually see things like if the screw heads are oval, if the slots are SAE or chinese narrow slots, if there are machine marks on the heads or, in the case of the short lower tang screws for 73, 85 and 86 lmodels, if the are simply cut off buttplate screws or if they have the correct taper for the shorter length.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Wincacher, Bob and Mike:
Thanks for the input and leads on where to get screws. I have found an original receiver screw which is also called a hammer screw. I have also ordered “NOS” on eBay that Wincacher pointed out to me. And will go the Winchester Bob if they turn out not to be good.
Now my next question is what is good? Wincacher pointed out that the heads should not have machine marks and be polished and Mike pointed out that screws for the early rifles were heat treated and not blued. Where can I find them or have that done Mike? Given that I know the what, not the how. What is the process to polish the screws if necessary. If blued do I just buff then out and polish. I know you guys know the tricks of the trade. Hope you guys had a good weekend.
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk,
The NOS ones I saw on Ebay you can see the circular machine marks in the head and NOS may only mean the 20 or 30 years. Mike said original screws were case hardened but with less color so they tend to have a silvery gray cast to them. I have played with making new screws look old by using heat and cold blue then removing the color and after a few tries you might get something that looks right. You can clean up the screw heads either with a lath or in a drill and take off the machine marks with sand paper.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Kirk,The NOS ones I saw on Ebay you can see the circular machine marks in the head and NOS may only mean the 20 or 30 years. Mike said original screws were case hardened but with less color so they tend to have a silvery gray cast to them. I have played with making new screws look old by using heat and cold blue then removing the color and after a few tries you might get something that looks right. You can clean up the screw heads either with a lath or in a drill and take off the machine marks with sand paper.
Bob
To take the machine marks off screw heads I chuck them in a drill and use 220 grit emery paper with a drop of cutting oil. This leaves a nice, smooth clean metal surface but does nothing toward widening those narrow chinese screw slots. Then I degrease them and let them sit in brine overnight and then air dry wet. I get some interesting rust marks that way.
BTW: I ordered one of those 1886 NOS loading gate screws, so we’ll see if they are real (I doubt it). But maybe the slot will be correct.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I’m always amused and very, very cautious by New Old Stock (NOS).
Model 86 production ended in 1935 (82 years ago).
So, where have all these parts been hiding for the past 80+ years?
Bob Knapp, (AKA Winchester Bob) and I are pretty good friends; occasionally we talk about all the NOS Winchester parts on eBay, he generally chuckles, a lot of it is coming out of his shop.
Kirk:
I buy all of my screws from Jim Grueter ([email protected]) in Winchester, Idaho. He manufactures all of his screws plus other important parts such as saddle rings and studs. His stuff is either blued or case hardened as per original specs. All top notch quality. Suggest you contact him and request a price sheet that will give you his inventory as well as prices.
p.s. Jim is a long-time WACA member whereas WinchesterBob is not……………..
Rick Hill
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
I had a brain cramp for a moment, yes Jim Grueter makes excellent products, not only his screws but he also makes side plates for the 73 and I believe the 76.
Rick, thanks for reminding me
V/r
Mike
Does Jim Grueter make any other parts? He is only 2 hrs from me, perhaps ride down when winter is over.
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