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I am bringing a Model 1986, 45-90 back to original condition. I have found an original butt stock. The rifle has a front sling ring so the original stock had a sling swivel base.
Q: Where did the factory position the sling swivel on the butt stock? Distance forward of the butt plate?
Q: Where might I find an original sling swivel base?
Q: What models other that the 1886 used this same swivel?
I am a new member so hope this is the correct protocol.
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk
There are different types of sling attachments. You should post a picture of the front sling so we can see what style you have.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Kirk,
You have the standard sling eyes that were sold and installed on Winchesters. The front is a pivoting eye and the back is a fixed eye that is screwed into the wood. I was just over at my brothers house and he had one for the stock in his parts drawer. Measure the width of the eye with a micrometer and I will see if its the same. I took pictures of one of his guns that has them on but they measure .143″ across the eye but yours looks wider.
Bob
These are the narrow ones.
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob,
Spent much of the afternoon rummaging around in the attic looking for my micrometer in my reloading boxes.
The width of the swivel on my 45-90 is .22 inches the OD is .365 inches. So as you said your brothers rifle has the narrower swivels.
The .143 inch width looks to be is really narrow.
I guess we are back to mo original three questions?
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk-
A couple of years ago I was buying up every old hook type sling swivel eye I could find looking for the ‘right’ one for a project. Net result is that I have several antique butt stock swivel eyes of this general style in my parts chest.
Over the weekend I’ll dig them out and measure ID and OD. If I find anything that might work, you can it have gratis b/c I do not need it (I finally found what I was looking for so the other accumulated parts are excess to my needs). I’ll let you know…
I do not know the answers to your questions regarding M1873 Winchesters. Bob will have to help with that. I’d’ve no idea where to drill the hole on a M1873 butt stock…
Best…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Kirk,
He has the narrow ones on the gun I pictured but he has a wide one in his parts draw that did come off a later 86. I wanted the measurement from yours to compare to it. So its .22″ across the flats of the eye and .365″ around the round OD. Correct? He did say he would sell it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Louis,
Thanks for the help. From my research to date the butt swivel was placed 4 inches, plus or minus 1/8-1/4 inch, from the butt plate on the Model 1886.
Bob’s brother may have one. I will let you know.
Cheers
Kirk
Bob,
Your understanding of the measurements are correct. If your brother has one I would like to buy it from him.
See my reply to Louis’ post on location of swivel. Correct or not? 
As an aside I see that you have a slug of posts and are very active in Winchester collecting. So I am going to pick your brain. I read the article in the Winchester Collector Magazine by Mike Hunter on original wood finishes which after much research believe is the most authoritative research done to date. So I now know the material’s used and having worked with wood a lot of years I know how to use. My question is this: When should one refinish a stock and when should you just leave it alone? Your thoughts?
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk,
I picked up the one from my brother and it measures .220″ x .365″ so its the same style. He wants $25 for it shipped as long as your in the lower 48. I measures a gun that lettered with swivels and it is 4″ from the toe. As far as stock finish. Wood is one of the first things on a gun that gets refinished since it wears quick so I’m not turned off by a little finish wiped on a gun. What You don’t like to see is the wood sanded down to where the wood is below the metal and rounded corners or you have a 50% gun with 100% finish on the wood. If you have some original finish to the wood leave it or if the wood looks the same condition as the gun I would leave it. If you sand the wood you almost need a old receiver and butt plate to hold the wood so you don’t round the corners or get it too low. Post some pictures so we can see what it looks like.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob,
Your brothers swivel looks like the correct. Can’t tell from the photo how much blueing is on the part. That is not a show stopper because I can blue it. I am a currently a hold out for a blued part from Louis. I will let you know.
When I get the wood I will send you pictures and we can talk. My situation may be I have a 95%+ gun and 50% wood. We will see. I will be in touch.
Thanks again for you time and advice.
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk-
I’ve attached a photo of the three ‘spare’ sets of eyes that I have laying in the parts chest. The fourth set I have is one I know is correct for the M54 1st Standard Rifle, but the butt stock eye in that set is the same as the ones pictured on the left and right and in no better condition finish-wise.
As you can see, all three differ with respect to the method of securing the front swivel. The set in the middle is odd, because the hole is not centered. It might be ‘wear’, but it looks like they may have been made that way? Some of these were Ebay listings from Nick ‘Old Gunsights’ Strobel, but I honestly do not recall which. Nor do I know if they are genuine Winchester parts, how old they really are, or if they are from some other manufacturer (they’re not modern reproductions from Dixie Gun Works, however)… Maybe 1873man can enlighten me?
The OD dimension agrees with yours, and the width across the flats is 0.210″, 0.238″ and 0.220″ from left to right. The ID written on the picture is the diameter of the hole. Compared to the one Bob pictured, the ‘eye’ may be set a little closer to the ‘stop flange’ on all three. He’ll need to comment on that…
Let me know if any will work…
Cheers…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis,
The measurement of .220″ is not the ID of the hole. Its the width of the eye across the flats.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks, Bob. I realized that when re-reading the earlier posts. See my edited post above. All three are from 0.210″ to 0.238″ across the flats.
Cheers…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Bob/Louis,
Looking at the “The Winchester Book” by Madis ( Pg. 600) and studying the photos and the measurements my best guess is that the third set is the correct swivel. And since I only need the buttstock screw the forestock attachments are not a consideration. It also appears that there is blueing on the part. What do you guys think? Close enough?
Louis I will gladly pay for the swivel and certainly for the shipping. Let me know.
My address:
Kirk Fitzgerald
3881 Arista Way
Oceanside, CA 92058
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk-
When it comes to what is exactly correct for a 19th century M1886 Winchester, I defer completely to Bob.
The dimensions of the eye (OD and width across flats) are correct on the set on the right, but I notice that on Bob’s brother’s part there is more space between the flange and the eye. The one’s I have exactly match the factory installed M54 sling swivel eyes (1920’s), but I do not know if they are correct for earlier Winchesters. Bob has the experience to answer that question.
The set on the right has 90+% blue finish. No idea if it is original blue (I wasn’t around when the part was made) but it is not “over polished”. It does look like it was never installed on a rifle.
I do not want any money for it, just confirm you want it (maybe after we hear from Bob?) and I’ll drop it in the mail this week. Personally (because I am obsessive with details), if I were you I’d get both mine and Bob’s brother’s, and use the one that best compares to the front swivel on your rifle. If you end up not using mine you can mail it back.
Cheers
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
For what it’s worth, parts like the right hand set above were available as after market parts at least into the 1950s. See the excerpt from the 1952 Stoeger Shooter’s Bible (items L-4 and F-16) below:
So they are could be relatively ‘modern’ non-factory parts, but the butt stock screw matches the M54 swivel eye (same supplier?)
The part I spent so much time looking for was F-17 in the catalog above, specifically an after market forearm screw eye with a round backing nut. It was for a (dare I say the ‘S-word’ in this forum???) 1946 Savage M99 EG my late Uncle had given me that was clean/original EXCEPT for non-factory QD swivel studs (Uncle Mike’s variety) that he had installed when he bought the rifle second hand in the 1950s. Since I could not make the holes in the wood disappear, I wanted to replace the studs with swivel eyes that looked like what the factory was using on the M99 R at the time. The after market part is a different (coarser) thread than the Winchester factory M54 part and it took a long time to find. If I’d’ve been smart I’d’ve ordered it from Stoeger back in ’52!!! 
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Bob/Louis,
Had sent a long post out this morning and it went into the smokey upgrade of the site. I will try to get it out again with better luck this time.
The swivel eye that is in louis’ picture on the far right looks line the one in The Winchester Book for the 1986. The swivels are not noted in the letter so I am assuming it is an aftermarket item. More on that later. So Louis if you will send it to me I will check the blueing match and if it is too far off I will return it. I suspect Winchester didn’t make the swivels and they were used by several gun makers. Many thanks.
My letter states the following: Rifle, 45/90, Octagon barrel, Takedown and Plain trigger. It was manufactured in late 1894.
My rife has a 26 inch barrel, full magazine , sling rings, hooded front site (Lyman S-I ), Lyman combination tang peep site ( N.I. ) W/ interchangeable disks, rear sight blank, varnish finish. The rifle obviously made a stop at a gunsmith along the way. He made one more little modification; he cut down the butt stock and put on a recoil pad. Isn’t that precious?
He built it for a small man or a woman. Interesting considering the weight and recoil of the rifle-go figure. The gun has 95%+ blueing, no pitting in the bore, and a tight lever mechanism. looks really good for a 122 year old rifle.
So now on to my tail of woe. I am looking for a nice original butt stock. NICE is the operative word here, not fancy just appropriate for the gun. Have seen some very rough stocks that are over priced. I am looking in all the usual places. You guys must know some WACA folks that have these laying aroundAre you rolling your eye’s yet?
Any help is appreciated
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk-
Did you catch Bob’s post last night before it too disappeared into the ether? He did not have a strong opinion either way about the exact style of swivel eye.
I’ll drop the part in the mail to you this week. If you can use it, great, if not just mail it back.
Shame about the butt stock. It’s hard to figure what goes through people’s minds sometime. I have a hard time imagining a heavy 45-90 as a ladies/child’s rifle whatever the LOP. Maybe it belonged to a really burly midget (opps… I mean vertically challenged person of short stature).
I am not knowledgeable at all about Winchester lever action models (any of them). Others might be able to help.
Best
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Bob/Louis,
The L4 stock screw eye in Stoegers’ Bible is very close the one shown in The Winchester Book (Pg. 600). My letter does not mention swivel installation at the factory. So I guess we can conclude that they are an aftermarket add on. Could be the same or different than the ones Winchester used. I doubt that Winchester actually made the swivels.
So I think that Louis’ stock screw on the far right of the photo is close enough. Louis if you send it I will check to see if the blueing is close. If not I will return it.
A new tail or woe. My rifle letters as follows: Rifle, 45/90,Octagon barrel, Plain trigger, Takedown. Received in the warehouse on December 18, 1894. Shipped from the warehouse on April 3, 1895.
The barrel is 26 inches, has a full magazine, sling rings, hooded front site (Lyman 5-I ), Combination tang peep sight (coarsely knurled post w/ interchangeable disks), rear sight blank and varnished finish. So I conclude that this rifle made a stop at a gunsmith along the way primarily because of the custom sights. The tail of woe-he, the gunsmith, made one other little modification; he shortened the stock and put on a rubber butt pad! Isn’t that sweet? It was customized for a small man or possibly a woman. Give the weight and recoil of the rifle I can’t quite figure that out-oh well. The blueing is 95%+, boar is not pitted and the lever mechanism is tight. For being 122 years old it is a damn fine looking rifle.
So the bottom line is; nice gun….bad stock I need a nice original 1886 butt stock appropriate for this rifle. Operative word here is “nice”, not fancy just nice.
Now that you are done rolling your eyes-any ideas.
Cheers
Kirk
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